1970s Fords

Guys. Trying to decide on a tractor. I am considering a 1970s Ford just don't know which one. Can somone please tell me the difference between 3600, 4600, and 5600 vs the 3000, 4000 and 5000. Other than age, what are the major differences? I am really considering the 4600 but can really determine what sets it apart from the rest other than a few hp either way and a few years?

Thoughts.

Have a lead on a good condition Case 990 (55hp diesel) that is priced right. How do the above fords compare to the case 990? The case worries me a bit wit parts availability

Thanks
 

Can't tell you the differences on the Fords. Not knowledgeable on Fords of the 70s.

I'm partial to Ford, but why would the Case worry you on parts any more than the Fords? They're all under the CNH umbrella nowadays.
 
(quoted from post at 07:35:58 12/31/17)
Can't tell you the differences on the Fords. Not knowledgeable on Fords of the 70s.

I'm partial to Ford, but why would the Case worry you on parts any more than the Fords? They're all under the CNH umbrella nowadays.

Somone can correct me if I am wrong, but the case worries me because it seems as if the 990 wasn't a super popular model in some areas of the country. It was imported and certain areas saw some imports while others saw none. This is all based on my reading of course. I don't want to order parts from England every time I need something.

I did start a post on my concerns with the 990 in the case forum. Trying narrow down the fords and find out what the real differences are.
 
Speaking only with regards to the 4-cylinder tractors...

When the x600 series came out in 1975, the primary changes were in the hydraulics and the styling (decals and grille). By then, dual power,
load monitor, and integral steering had already come out a few years earlier in the thousand series.

The biggest mechanical change with the 600 series would have been increased hydraulic flow. For the four cylinder models, it was increased
from 6.0 to 9.7 GPM. The addition of a spin-on hydraulic filter was also an important improvement.

There was also cylinder head porting changes with the 600 series that was supposed to improve combustion, but I doubt anyone could tell.
And yes, the HP was upped a few as well, and once again, most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

Stated another way, if you were to drive a 1974 5000, and compare it to a 1975 5600, you would not be able to tell much difference.
 
The x600's gained a few h.p. over the older models,
as you noted. (Although the 6600 (70 h.p.) was the
direct replacement for the 5000 (67 h.p.), while the
5600 (60 h.p.) split the difference between the 4600
and 6600.) They also got higher gpm hydraulic
pumps, twin control 3-point levers on the 3-cylinder
models, improved p/s, lower noise levels at the
operator's position by moving the exhaust forward,
alternators on all models rather than generators,
more reliable instrument clusters, and factory cabs
available starting in '77.
 
(quoted from post at 10:35:58 12/31/17)


I'm partial to Ford, but why would the Case worry you on parts any more than the Fords? They're all under the CNH umbrella nowadays.
In my travels around the internet and as the owner of 6 3 cylinder Fords, Fords are way ahead on parts availability IMO. Dealer parts for older tractors have come to rely heavily on the aftermarket, and Fords have an almost unbelievable parts aftermarket. Now India has entered that aftermarket, they have a huge number of 70's style Fords and Ford clones in service. And the parts are also far cheaper than other brands. It's a Golden Age for old Ford aficianados. Used parts abound also.
 
(quoted from post at 08:11:03 12/31/17) Speaking only with regards to the 4-cylinder tractors...

When the x600 series came out in 1975, the primary changes were in the hydraulics and the styling (decals and grille). By then, dual power,
load monitor, and integral steering had already come out a few years earlier in the thousand series.

The biggest mechanical change with the 600 series would have been increased hydraulic flow. For the four cylinder models, it was increased
from 6.0 to 9.7 GPM. The addition of a spin-on hydraulic filter was also an important improvement.

There was also cylinder head porting changes with the 600 series that was supposed to improve combustion, but I doubt anyone could tell.
And yes, the HP was upped a few as well, and once again, most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

Stated another way, if you were to drive a 1974 5000, and compare it to a 1975 5600, you would not be able to tell much difference.

Good stuff...thank you..... so if I am understanding correctly the 600 series only had spin on hydraulic filers and the others did not? . The 4600 and 3600 were 3 cylinder diesels correct? Any disadvantage to the 3 cylinder vs the 4 cylinders when speaking of longevity, parts etc. Are the 600 series really better tractors or, as you mentioned is it basically just a change of cosmetics?

Also...something else I wondered is about the physical size of these tractors. Is there a size difference between say a 4600 and a 5600 and a 4000 and 5000 or are we just speaking about hp and some heavier duty items?

I really wish I could compare these models side by side for size differences as I know that the smaller 3600, mf 135 etc tend to be too small for me. Sitting on them I feel a bit cramped at 6'2".
 
Larry there are tons and tons of good aftermarket parts for Fords,I have't bought a
genuine Ford engine part since FIAT took over.I know that not all aftermarket is good, but
there is good out there. As far as I am concerned on Fords, Fiat is aftermarket. I don't
think you will find near that much stuff for Case. I could be wrong.
 

The Case 990 was a rebadged David Brown, the only thing Case on that tractor that tractor is the paint and decals.
David Brown 990 has a very solid built tractor and well respected around here, but I only know of one still around here and it doesn't run.
Might want to check with your Case dealer to see well their parts support is for that model.

3000-3600 are smaller 40 pto hp utility tractors, sweep back axles, drum brakes, normally have 28" rear tires, low profile, very handy and nimble in close quarter work. Comparable in size and performance to the older 800-801 series Fords, 35-135 Massy's.

4000-4600 are slightly larger 45-50 pto hp models with straight front axle, wet disc brakes, normally have 30" rear tires.
Comparable in size and hp to the Case 990.

5000-5600 are larger chassis 4 cylinder models, very solid dependable tractors

Other than previously mentioned changes later -600 series have paper air filters instead of oil bath and more conveniently located parking brake controls
 
As others have said, the X600s are really
the same tractors as their older sisters
the X000s.
The 600s did have some important
improvements but none of them really make
much difference in functionality or
longevity. Take a 4000 and a 4600 and they
will share about 90% of the same parts.
Same with a 3000/3600. Major componants
will all swap between them - heads,
cranks, blocks, tranny, axles, rear ends,
etc if you stay 4xxx to 4xxx, 3 to 3, 5 to
5 and so on. Wheel base, height, weight,
are the same within each series.
The back half of my 3000 is actually from
a 3600.
The 4xxxs are substantially more tractor
than the 3xxxs. Bigger, longer, heavier,
more hp. Best thing about the 4s and 5s
are the double reduction rear ends and wet
disc brakes. 3s had single reduction and
dry drum brakes which are ok but not
excellent like the others. 4s have a much
simpler, much heavier (better) front axle
and steering too, especially for loader
work. Early 5000 power steering was not
nearly as good as the later ones and
5600s.
Of course we like our Fords here and will
brag them up if given a chance but if you
go to Tractor Talk board and ask what were
the best utility tractors ever built in
that era - of all the major brands - the
4/5/46/5600s will consistantly come out on
top of the heap along with a couple of
Masseys. The 3010, 3020, 4010/20 JDs are
right up there too btw. The rest don't
even get mentioned.
Best includes, simplicity, longevity,
reliability, dealer support, parts
availability and probably other things.
They are good old tractors still.
 
(quoted from post at 11:08:59 12/31/17)
The Case 990 was a rebadged David Brown, the only thing Case on that tractor that tractor is the paint and decals.
David Brown 990 has a very solid built tractor and well respected around here, but I only know of one still around here and it doesn't run.
Might want to check with your Case dealer to see well their parts support is for that model.

3000-3600 are smaller 40 pto hp utility tractors, sweep back axles, drum brakes, normally have 28" rear tires, low profile, very handy and nimble in close quarter work. Comparable in size and performance to the older 800-801 series Fords, 35-135 Massy's.

4000-4600 are slightly larger 45-50 pto hp models with straight front axle, wet disc brakes, normally have 30" rear tires.
Comparable in size and hp to the Case 990.

5000-5600 are larger chassis 4 cylinder models, very solid dependable tractors

Other than previously mentioned changes later -600 series have paper air filters instead of oil bath and more conveniently located parking brake controls

Thank you. Very good information. You guys are a wealth of knowledge. When I finally get something I will not be a stranger as I am sure I will have plenty of questions.

Interesting about the Case. Like I said, I have been researching the 990 for a few days now and talked to the owner of the tractor that I have my eye on. I am waiting for him to send me additional photos probably early this week to make a decision on whether or not to make the 1.5hr drive to take a look at it. Based on my readings I guess certain areas of the country saw many more David Browns than others.

I did make a post in the Case forum to see what they had to say. Although I think I might feel a bit more comfortable with a Ford 4600, I am not hopeful that I will find a good one that is well maintained and doesn't have 10000 hours for 4k. Decisions....Decisions.

Happy New Year!
 
(quoted from post at 11:12:34 12/31/17) As others have said, the X600s are really
the same tractors as their older sisters
the X000s.
The 600s did have some important
improvements but none of them really make
much difference in functionality or
longevity. Take a 4000 and a 4600 and they
will share about 90% of the same parts.
Same with a 3000/3600. Major componants
will all swap between them - heads,
cranks, blocks, tranny, axles, rear ends,
etc if you stay 4xxx to 4xxx, 3 to 3, 5 to
5 and so on. Wheel base, height, weight,
are the same within each series.
The back half of my 3000 is actually from
a 3600.
The 4xxxs are substantially more tractor
than the 3xxxs. Bigger, longer, heavier,
more hp. Best thing about the 4s and 5s
are the double reduction rear ends and wet
disc brakes. 3s had single reduction and
dry drum brakes which are ok but not
excellent like the others. 4s have a much
simpler, much heavier (better) front axle
and steering too, especially for loader
work. Early 5000 power steering was not
nearly as good as the later ones and
5600s.
Of course we like our Fords here and will
brag them up if given a chance but if you
go to Tractor Talk board and ask what were
the best utility tractors ever built in
that era - of all the major brands - the
4/5/46/5600s will consistantly come out on
top of the heap along with a couple of
Masseys. The 3010, 3020, 4010/20 JDs are
right up there too btw. The rest don't
even get mentioned.
Best includes, simplicity, longevity,
reliability, dealer support, parts
availability and probably other things.
They are good old tractors still.

This is good info and pretty much exactly the comparison I was looking for. Helps me a lot. Thank you. I think I am going to consider the Case 990 that and also a Ford 4600, 5000 or 5600.

Any reason to stick with a 3 cylinder 4600 vs a 4 Cylinder 5600? Are their benefits to either? Ii thought I read somewhere that although a bit rougher, the 3 cylinder Ford was somehow better than the 4 cylinder? Not sure if this holds water or not...

Have a happy new year.
 
(quoted from post at 23:06:04 12/31/17) Any reason to stick with a 3 cylinder 4600 vs a 4 Cylinder 5600? Are their benefits to either? Ii thought I read somewhere that although a bit rougher, the 3 cylinder Ford was somehow better than the 4 cylinder? Not sure if this holds water or not...

I think that maybe what you read was comparing the 1965+ 3 cylinders to the pre-1965 4 cylinders, and yes, the 3 cylinders were superior engines to the earlier 4 cylinder engines. The 1965+ 4 cylinder engines are basically the identical design as their 3 cylinder siblings and I have not heard much in the way of negative things about them compared to the 3 cylinders. If you get either one (1965+ 3 or 4 cylinder) with a diesel engine then make sure that you use a coolant with the anti-cavitation additive.
 
I would only disagree with you on your point about the early 5000 power steering. Properly working and adjusted, those tractors would steer as easy as any John Deere out there. That said, performance would deteriorate as the parts started to wear.
 
(quoted from post at 08:31:07 01/01/18)
(quoted from post at 23:06:04 12/31/17) Any reason to stick with a 3 cylinder 4600 vs a 4 Cylinder 5600? Are their benefits to either? Ii thought I read somewhere that although a bit rougher, the 3 cylinder Ford was somehow better than the 4 cylinder? Not sure if this holds water or not...

I think that maybe what you read was comparing the 1965+ 3 cylinders to the pre-1965 4 cylinders, and yes, the 3 cylinders were superior engines to the earlier 4 cylinder engines. The 1965+ 4 cylinder engines are basically the identical design as their 3 cylinder siblings and I have not heard much in the way of negative things about them compared to the 3 cylinders. If you get either one (1965+ 3 or 4 cylinder) with a diesel engine then make sure that you use a coolant with the anti-cavitation additive.

Thanks Sean... I bet that is what I read and just misunderstood.

So I found a 4600 I am considering.
The 2nd owner doesn't know much about it and has only owned it since last October. He says it runs and drives fine but other than that, he isn't a tractor guy. He sent me a pic of the serial number and it is very blurry. Looks like C59T235. It appears the tractor has indication of the "SU" sicker on the front tins, but the sticker is gone. Can anyone tell me if the serial number translates to a SU model and if so, is there anything wrong with the light front end SU model?

Here are some pics...


mvphoto8539.jpg


mvphoto8540.jpg
 
The serial number will not tell you what model it is, only when it was made. The serial number should be a 6 digit number after the leading C, so that "T" in the middle is likely a 1 or a 7. A serial number starting in "C59" should be a 1978 or 1979 tractor. If the "T" is really a 1 then it would be a 1978 tractor, and if it is a "7" then it would be a 1979 tractor.

I can see from the pictures that it has the radius rod front axle and the double reduction rear axle, so it is a 4600SU. It also has a remote valve under the seat with a single set of remote connections out the rear, and it has the transmission hand brake which was an option.
 

Thanks Sean..

Yeah... The seller has it listed as a 1979 so I assume the "T" is really a 7.
I have a blurry photo of the information tag. Cant make out the first few digits of of the model number but it looks like XX214C. the C might be a 6 for all I can tell.

So you believe it is an SU model? Anything wrong with the SU model? Is it more or less desirable than the regular model? I assume it is less considering the lighter weight front end?

The attached pics are the only ones I have and the only ones the owner has at this time. I guess the tractor is under a lean-to wrapped in tarps for the winter.

Thanks
Jeff
 

That's a SU model, I have the earlier 4000SU, very handy tractor.
Pro's - Same compact size with swept back axle as a 3600 but has the more powerful 201 engine, independent pto, planetary axles and wet disc brakes of the 4600.
Con's - Swept back axle is lighter duty and doesn't work as well with a loader as the regular 4600 straight axle.
Same gearing as regular model but with shorter tires so it has a little slower travel speeds.

It's a little hard to recommend a tractor size without knowing a little about what you plan to do with it, tell us what you have or want to do.

Example.
We raise a cattle and poultry, I bale around 120 acres of hay each year in round bales
My 4000SU's compact size works great inside our poultry barns with plenty of power, I also use it to ted and rake hay.
It's smaller size and lighter front end weight doesn't work well handling my disc mower, baler, or moving round bales.
My 4000 has been my main tractor for nearly 30 years doing every job on the farm, heavy duty straight axle make it better for loader use, it's larger size doesn't work as well in the poultry barns and it takes up a little more room doing close quarters work, other wise it's a good all around use tractor.
The new larger disc mower and baler I bought a few years ago have it near it's limits in being able to operate them and handle them safely.
I acquired my late brothers 5000 a few years ago and find myself using it more and more each year, it larger physical size makes it the better tractor for the new mower and baler, this also makes it a better loader tractor, it also handles my 10' brush hog better.
It's to big to properly use in the poultry barns so I don't even pull it into the buildings, I also consider it to big for close quarters work, box blading the drive ways, mowing around bushes and under trees.
Due to hay dust allergies I now have a 6610 cab tractor with AC for baling, also does a good job pulling the 15" bat wing mower clipping pastures.

As you see I have different sizes for different jobs now but my 4000 use to do all of the work so I'm kinda parcel to to it.
Large row crop operators would consider my size tractors as useless toys.
Those maintaining their drive way and small acreage may consider anything larger than the 4000SU as to big.
 
(quoted from post at 11:33:04 01/02/18)
That's a SU model, I have the earlier 4000SU, very handy tractor.
Pro's - Same compact size with swept back axle as a 3600 but has the more powerful 201 engine, independent pto, planetary axles and wet disc brakes of the 4600.
Con's - Swept back axle is lighter duty and doesn't work as well with a loader as the regular 4600 straight axle.
Same gearing as regular model but with shorter tires so it has a little slower travel speeds.

It's a little hard to recommend a tractor size without knowing a little about what you plan to do with it, tell us what you have or want to do.

Example.
We raise a cattle and poultry, I bale around 120 acres of hay each year in round bales
My 4000SU's compact size works great inside our poultry barns with plenty of power, I also use it to ted and rake hay.
It's smaller size and lighter front end weight doesn't work well handling my disc mower, baler, or moving round bales.
My 4000 has been my main tractor for nearly 30 years doing every job on the farm, heavy duty straight axle make it better for loader use, it's larger size doesn't work as well in the poultry barns and it takes up a little more room doing close quarters work, other wise it's a good all around use tractor.
The new larger disc mower and baler I bought a few years ago have it near it's limits in being able to operate them and handle them safely.
I acquired my late brothers 5000 a few years ago and find myself using it more and more each year, it larger physical size makes it the better tractor for the new mower and baler, this also makes it a better loader tractor, it also handles my 10' brush hog better.
It's to big to properly use in the poultry barns so I don't even pull it into the buildings, I also consider it to big for close quarters work, box blading the drive ways, mowing around bushes and under trees.
Due to hay dust allergies I now have a 6610 cab tractor with AC for baling, also does a good job pulling the 15" bat wing mower clipping pastures.

As you see I have different sizes for different jobs now but my 4000 use to do all of the work so I'm kinda parcel to to it.
Large row crop operators would consider my size tractors as useless toys.
Those maintaining their drive way and small acreage may consider anything larger than the 4000SU as to big.

Thanks for all the Info. Sorry I am full of questions! Since you asked about me and my intentions... here it goes..

Currently I only have a small plot of land (11 acres) that I plan on brush hogging, discing, Tilling and planting. Initially I am going to be using the tractor for whitetail deer habitat establishment on my 11 acres as well as possibly snow removal (back blade) and some hired brush hogging for my neighbors. Neighbors all have 20+ acre horse farms and hire all their brush hogging out. Figured if I could make some money every 6 months or so... why not...

Long term, As my two young sons get older I am hoping the tractor can be a project for us. A slow restoration so that they can learn about all things mechanical. Currently, they are 2.5 years and 3.5 month old!

In the future I also plan on possibly buying more hunting property/acreage as funds become available and the kids get older. I would like a tractor that I won't outgrow as long as I have realistic expectations of it. Right now I have no use for a loader, but that doesn't mean I wont need one in the future.

I am 99% sure I could get away with something like a 2000/3000, MF 135 etc, but just find those models really small. I guess I am operating on the pole barn theory. Figure out what size I need, and get one or two sizes bigger.

Thanks!
 
A '79 4600SU model number would start with DS2, so it is most likely DS214C, which would make it a 4600SU with a diesel engine, independent 540 rpm PTO and an 8 speed transmission.
 
An SU would be a great machine. Powerful,
nimble, independent pto, excellent brakes.
Fwiw, I have three properties up in
central MN. Total acreage is only 35.
I bush hog, finish mow, plow and disc deer
plots and the gardens for a couple of
cousins, plus the usual backblading
driveways, dragging dead trees, and
general goofing around with my 3000.
It really is all the tractor I need.
I have owned several standard 4000s,
parted them out, fixed them up and sold
them, etc.
I really like the 4000s but every time if
I have to make a choice I always sell the
4000s and stick to my 3000. It's just so
darned handy. The 4000/4600s are just a
little too big. An SU would be about the
perfect tractor. Plenty of grunt and small
stature. I would Not want a loader on my
3000. I have had loader tractors too. But
a loader makes a clumsy behemoth out of
one. Some day I will own a dedicated
loader tractor. It might only get used 25
hours a year tho.
I say that SU would be a great all round
tractor for your property. And down the
road if you want bigger you can sell it
and move up to something larger.
 
(quoted from post at 15:47:51 01/02/18) An SU would be a great machine. Powerful,
nimble, independent pto, excellent brakes.
Fwiw, I have three properties up in
central MN. Total acreage is only 35.
I bush hog, finish mow, plow and disc deer
plots and the gardens for a couple of
cousins, plus the usual backblading
driveways, dragging dead trees, and
general goofing around with my 3000.
It really is all the tractor I need.
I have owned several standard 4000s,
parted them out, fixed them up and sold
them, etc.
I really like the 4000s but every time if
I have to make a choice I always sell the
4000s and stick to my 3000. It's just so
darned handy. The 4000/4600s are just a
little too big. An SU would be about the
perfect tractor. Plenty of grunt and small
stature. I would Not want a loader on my
3000. I have had loader tractors too. But
a loader makes a clumsy behemoth out of
one. Some day I will own a dedicated
loader tractor. It might only get used 25
hours a year tho.
I say that SU would be a great all round
tractor for your property. And down the
road if you want bigger you can sell it
and move up to something larger.

Thanks Ultradog. So you saw what few pics I have of the one I am looking at currently. What do you think would be a fair price for that tractor given average tires, and a strong good working engine with no blow by, good clutch, Pto, and 3 point? Obviously it needs a shift lever knob, a rear light, Some decals and paint work. Might need front tires and possibly rears. Current owner doesn't know much about the tractor at all as it came with the property he bought.

On the other hand, as posted in the case forum, I have my eye on a case 990 that is in decent shape. Owner said is has been used little and has been repainted. 4 cylinder 55 hp diesel with 12 speed gearbox. Guy will let that one go for 4k.

I am on the fence about what to do. I could just wait for spring.. Not sure if tractors tend to sell for higher prices in spring or not.
 

I completely agree with Ultradog, a SU model would be a great tractor for your needs.
It will handle a 6 ft brush hog with ease, 7 footer will get the front end light, but has enough hp to operate a 8 ft pull type cutter.
I have a 10 ft pull type I've pulled with my 4000 but have never hooked it to the SU, I don't feel the SU has enough weight to properly handle that size mower.
You'll like the independent pto but be aware these earlier tractors didn't have a pto safety switch so you can start the engine and have the pto suddenly start turning if it was left engaged or the lever was flipped on accidentally (children playing).
Even if I didn't need the hp I'd hate to give up the superior wet disc brakes for a 3000-3600"s drum brake system, plus the extra weight of the larger planetary axle and wet brakes gives the tractor a more stable feel (traded a 3000 for the SU).
I'm 6'1" and know the feeling of be cramped on some tractors, although my 4000 and 4000SU are the same size in the operator area I've adjusted the seats so that they set completely different.

On the 4000 I have the seat slid back and raised up to a comfortable position for me.
My 5'3" wife does most of the hay tedding and raking while I mow and bale, I have the SU's seat positioned forward and down for her. I need it to be comfortable for her to operate so I deal with it when I use it, other wise I'd reposition the seat.
So don't let the setting position sway your decision on these models.

For transporting to different locations a SU's thread width can be adjusted to fit between the fenders of a standard 8 ft width 6000 lb car hauler style trailer that can be pulled behind a 1/2 ton pickup (F-150, 1500). I hauled a 4000 on a small trailer behind a 1/2 ton pickup once. Once was enough for me. My 4000 will not fit between the fenders of a 8 ft car hauler style trailer, trailer needs to be 102" wide pulled by a 3/4 ton pickup (F-250, 2500).

With the other acreage and custom work you talking about, being able to transport a particular size tractor is something to consider.

That roll bar is a nice safety feature and a canopy can be added easily.
There does appear to be some type of home made lift arm stabilizer system with those chains around the lift arms and stay chains disconnected, but nothing that would cost much to rectify.

I looked in the Case section at the 990 you mentioned, it's a good looking tractor.
Keep in mind thats it's comparable in size and weight to a regular 4000-4600 (bigger truck & trailer to transport)
I've ran my friends 990, but him and his dad where around 5'8' with the seat set for them, I don't know how much adjustability there is in the 990's seating position, but from my experience driving their's if you felt cramped on a 2000, you'll be claustrophobic on a 990. 990 also has less hydraulic capacity than a 4600.
Just my experience but then I am a little biased toward Fords.
 

Thanks guys... I know I am all over the Map. Now I have found a few decent 3600 models to choose from. Taking the advice above and wondering if I really need a standard 4600 or even a 4600SU.

Is there a huge disadvantage to the drum brakes of the 3600 compared to the wet of the 4600. What about the rear end planetary gears? 40hp (pto diesel) ok for a 6 foot brush hog, blade, 2 bottom plow etc. Any other major differences between the 3600 and the 4600? As i said, I don't plan on ever adding a loader and if I do, i will trade up. The 3600's I am considering have outlets in the rear, one has spin out wheels, one has vertical and the other has horizontal exhaust and one only has 1600 hrs.

Thoughts... opinions... suggestions..

Thanks!
 
(quoted from post at 10:50:54 01/03/18) Have you looked on craigslist or tractor house at 990 David Browns prices?

What are they asking for the Ford?

There are very few David Brown 990s for sale that I have been able to find. I think I found one with a loader for 7k other than the one mentioned earlier in this thread and in a thread on the case board. Not a lot out there for sale currently.

The 4600SU pictured earlier in this thread with 3400 hours and a bunch of unknowns will be sold for 4k after negotiations between myself and the owner. This is the price we agreed on IF i decide to by and the tractor is as described. Problem is, the owner knows nothing about the tractor. Only that it runs and he owns it. He did mention that the breaks make a sound like a car needing new pads. Not sure what this means, but a squeal cant be great coming from the rear end of a tractor.

The 3600 with 1600hrs mentioned in my earlier post I am still getting info on. I am waiting for pics. Owner has several 3600's and restores them and sells them for profit. The one being discussed is mechanically sound (and repaired by him), rear outlets, deluxe fenders and horizontal exhaust. Everything works like a new tractor. Paint is original tins have no damage He wants $6500.00
 
I have a little less than 10 acres but I do allot with it. Food plot and sunflowers, plowing, disking, dragging, tilling and planting with a John Deere 2 row corn planter. Maintain gravel drive and of course mowing with a 7 foot JD flail mower. I have a 3000 with a loader I use for moving dirt and gravel which usually has a box blade or landscape rake on the rear. Also have a 3600 which does most of the mowing and other tasks.

Both are 3 cylinder diesel easy to work on, simple tractors with readily available parts and plenty of power for what I need. In my case a 4000 would be overkill and seems like more difficult to work on with normal shop tools.
 

Your user name 65plymouth must have some reasoning.
If you've driven a car or pickup with drum brakes and same type with disc brakes You probably know the difference in how they stop.
Same thing applies to the brakes on these Fords. Drum brakes will stop you and do a decent job, disc brakes are just better and require less effort. Thinking of those boys, when they get big enough to operate a tractor it would be easier for them to stop one with disc brakes.

Where your located and the type of ground you'll be working on would also be a determining factor.
For flat to low rolling ground ether type brake would be fine.
Some flat but mostly hilly ground like I have here in Ky I don't have a problem using a tractor with drum brakes, but I wouldn't want my wife to drive it.

We had a 3000 that she drove some in the hay fields, traded it for the 4000SU and now she drives that tractor.
The very first thing she commented on was how much better the brakes where on the SU.

The planetary gears on these tractors are nearly indestructible, unless they've been abused or run without oil they don't give problems.

To expand your search here's some comparisons
Each number change is for next newer model
3000 - 3600 - 3610 are all the same basic tractor
3910 same hp as 3610 but has 4000 series planetary axle and wet disc brakes.
4000 - 4600 - 4610 next size bigger, more hp, HD straight front axle, planetary drive rear axle with wet disc brakes, bigger tires and wheels
4000SU - 4600SU - 4610SU lower profile model using 3000 series front axle and steering with smaller tires

If you have the funding for a newer model I think you'd really like a 3930, about the same hp as the other 3000 series but has all of the features of a 4000 series. planetary axles, wet disc brakes, straight from axle but with shorter spindle drops and smaller tires giving it the lower profile, these models also have the much improved hydrostatic steering

Are you confused yet.
 
(quoted from post at 12:23:39 01/03/18)
Your user name 65plymouth must have some reasoning.
If you've driven a car or pickup with drum brakes and same type with disc brakes You probably know the difference in how they stop.
Same thing applies to the brakes on these Fords. Drum brakes will stop you and do a decent job, disc brakes are just better and require less effort. Thinking of those boys, when they get big enough to operate a tractor it would be easier for them to stop one with disc brakes.

Where your located and the type of ground you'll be working on would also be a determining factor.
For flat to low rolling ground ether type brake would be fine.
Some flat but mostly hilly ground like I have here in Ky I don't have a problem using a tractor with drum brakes, but I wouldn't want my wife to drive it.

We had a 3000 that she drove some in the hay fields, traded it for the 4000SU and now she drives that tractor.
The very first thing she commented on was how much better the brakes where on the SU.

The planetary gears on these tractors are nearly indestructible, unless they've been abused or run without oil they don't give problems.

To expand your search here's some comparisons
Each number change is for next newer model
3000 - 3600 - 3610 are all the same basic tractor
3910 same hp as 3610 but has 4000 series planetary axle and wet disc brakes.
4000 - 4600 - 4610 next size bigger, more hp, HD straight front axle, planetary drive rear axle with wet disc brakes, bigger tires and wheels
4000SU - 4600SU - 4610SU lower profile model using 3000 series front axle and steering with smaller tires

If you have the funding for a newer model I think you'd really like a 3930, about the same hp as the other 3000 series but has all of the features of a 4000 series. planetary axles, wet disc brakes, straight from axle but with shorter spindle drops and smaller tires giving it the lower profile, these models also have the much improved hydrostatic steering

Are you confused yet.

Very Confused... LOL.. Thank you though. You, as well as several others, have been very helpful.

Yes. I used to have a 65 Plymouth Valiant and my father and I built a 66 Plymouth Valiant from the ground up back in 2004/2005. Hot street car. We swapped the drums for discs! lol. Also crewed on for a 1964 Plymouth Savoy drag car running Nostalgia super stock for a year or two.

Anyway... For the most part all the terrain in this area is flat or made up of gradual rolling hills. No steep inclines. I am sure I would be fine with drum brakes on a tractor...

As for my budget, I think my wife would kill me if I spend anything more than $6500.00. This is a "starter" tractor and until it is justified (as being useful) I wont have the green light to spend much more money. Happy wife, Happy life principle. Plus, as I mentioned previously, most of it's use will come creating more hunting habitat FOR ME!! lol. She has no interest in the tractor only in the money I spend to buy it and maintain it.

Is there any truth to quality control taking a dive on the 1980's through min 90's tractors? Regardless of manufacturing. I know in the early 80's we started becoming a throw away society. I have also read that many of the major tractor manufacturers started outsourcing around this time and quality control started on a downward slope. This is specifically why I haven't looked at any of the 80's models. Budget as well. Newer usually means more $$$.
 

Can't say much about other brands, I've always had Fords.
But I feel my 89 6610 is as well built as my 69 4000 and although the sheet medal is changed, the basic tractor is still the same as when first produced in 65.
There where design changes through the years such as an intake manifold from a 80's model won't work on my 69 4000 (port design change) but that entire 80's model engine will bolt to my 69 transmission or I could bolt the 80's model head onto the 70's model engine I'm presently running on my 69 tractor and then use the 80's model intake.

Ford stayed true to the course on the basic tractor design from the 60's through to the 90's.

As long as one stays with the ever dependable 8x2 transmission any of the 3 cylinder models are good tractors.
Some later models could be had with 8x4 synchro shift and later 8x8 shuttle shift transmissions, good transmissions but hard to work on, higher repair cost and harder to find parts for.
 

Thanks Destroked 450... Hey can anyone tell me the average duty cycle (life span in hours) of the average, well maintained ford 3 cylinder diesel? I am just looking for a rule of thumb and know that proper care and maintenance goes a long ways towards longevity.

Any idea...

I am also on the fence about a 3600 vs the 4600SU that I posted photos of on the previous page. I may be going to look at the 4600SU as soon as the weather breaks. So, I need to know what to look for.

As I said, the owner of the 4600SU on the previous page isn't a tractor guy and the tractor came with a piece of land he purchased from a farmer. He said the tractor runs well, starts easy, doesn't smoke, and has no real issues (That he can tell anyways). Hour meter is working and shows 3400hrs. The tractor appears to be all original. Some of you pointed out that the photo of the rear shows the 3 point arms chained together with the sway chains missing. Are their parts missing in the photo? Do the rear remotes look funky?

How easy is it to remove the ROPs? I know it is there for safety, but for the time being the tractor will be stored in my garage and it wont fit with ROPS installed. Would I need new Fender brackets if removed the ROPS?

Now, he did mention that the brakes make a noise (using his words) "Similar to what a car with brake pads would make when it needs new pads". I would assume this means the brakes grind a bit. I have read that the wet discs in these tractors tend to make some noise. Is his explanation a normal sound?

Sorry to be so long winded with all of my posts. I am learning as I go and you guys are definitely helping with that. I appreciate it.

Thank you
 
Bob,
I will disagree a bit on a 4XXX being more
difficult to work on.
To split a 3XXX you have to deal with two
radius rods, two tie rods, two hydraulic
pump tubes and two power steering lines. A
standard 4XXX you have one tie rod and a
pair of power steering lines. That's it!
Much less monkeying around.
That is part of the reason I'm building
this industrial - to get away from that
wishbone steering. Plus I want the 201 and
wet brakes - in a short, compact package.
65Plymouth, if that SU runs decent I would
say $4K is a very good price.
To follow up on another question you had,
the "duty cycle" on one of these 3 cyl
Fords is pretty high.
I'm thinking 8+K hours on a diesel before
it needs a overhaul or pump. Gassers
maybe 60% of that. The rest of the tractor
should go 16K without anything major other
than a clutch or brakes. All this assuming
normal maintenance of course.
 
Hey can anyone tell me the average duty cycle (life span in hours) of the average, well maintained ford 3 cylinder diesel? I am just looking for a rule of thumb and know that proper care and maintenance goes a long ways towards longevity.

A 3 cylinder Ford diesel engine can easily last 10,000 hours between rebuilds if rebuilt properly and maintained properly.

How easy is it to remove the ROPs? I know it is there for safety, but for the time being the tractor will be stored in my garage and it wont fit with ROPS installed. Would I need new Fender brackets if removed the ROPS?

The ROPS remove fairly easily. Remove the 4 nuts on each side and lift it off. The hardest part is that it is rather heavy and will want to fall over as you remove the last nut, so you'll need some sort of overhead hoist or one or more helpers to hold it steady. I can't tell for sure, but the fenders appear to be separate on the one in those pictures, so you should be able to use the bottom brackets to hold the fenders on once the ROPS is removed. On my '73 4000 the fenders are welded to the base of the ROPS, so I can't remove my ROPS and still have fenders without buying another set of fenders or grinding off the welds.

Now, he did mention that the brakes make a noise (using his words) "Similar to what a car with brake pads would make when it needs new pads". I would assume this means the brakes grind a bit. I have read that the wet discs in these tractors tend to make some noise. Is his explanation a normal sound?

I'm not sure for "most" Ford tractors with wet brakes, but I can barely hear any brake noise over the engine on my 4000, and mine has a gas engine, so I would doubt that you could hear any normal brake noise over the diesel engine sound unless it has an extra quiet muffler. A loud grinding noise when braking would indicate a problem in my eye eyes (ears :D ), but some other folks might have noisy ones that have never been a problem so I can't tell you for sure.
 
Customer of mine had a 7000 that the wet brakes screamed when applied. Did a little
checking and the oil looked like buttermilk. We drained the differential,flushed it out,
put new oil in it and the noise went away.
 
Thanks Guys... I really appreciate all the help. Yes, I am considering the 4600SU and may give the guy a call back to figure out the logistics of everything. Problem is, we have quite a bit of snow on the ground right now and temps are in the single digits and the tractor is wrapped up in tarps for the winter under a lean-to at this guys place 2 hours from me. So... I am not really sure what to do. If I want He is willing to wait until the spring at our agreed price, but is keeping his ad up. he did say he is in no hurry to dig the tractor out

The owner did send me a 13 second video of him driving the tractor earlier this fall. It seemed to run fine. i didn't see any blue or white smoke coming out of the stack... so that is probably a good sign.

I did some reading on the wet brake noise. I found several opinions that the wet brakes are particular about fluids and the fluid used must meet ford specs. Like welding man mentioned, I bet the fluid is old and full of condensation.
 

Thanks Sean.. Good to know about the ROPS.

Sorry Ultradog... "Duty cycle" probably wasn't the best term to use to request what i wanted to know. We aren't talking about welders... lol Thanks for looking past that and getting the gist of what I was asking. lol.

So...I plan on trying to get out and inspect this 4600SU as soon as it warms up a bit.. Given the photos I posted... as long as it runs, doesn't blow odd smoke, Make odd noises.. trans functions etc. Then 4k is not a bad price given it's original condition? Is there any other costly items (besides tires and obvious engine issues, that I should be looking at???
 

Just a Suggestion.

I had the same type ROPS on my 4000, when we built the poultry barns it wouldn't fit under the feed lines.
I took a porta band and cut the ROPS off a few inches above the fenders leaving the base and fenders in place.
Some years later we set the top section back on and welded it back together. I later transferred it to my 4500 and have a newer fold down style ROPS for the 4000

Cutting it down saves a lot of work and that ROPS weighs a couple hundred lbs or more. If you built a taller shed to park the tractor in you can weld the top section back on for safety and possibly add a canopy later.
 
Just a couple of thoughts.

My 3550 wet brakes groaned and creaked like crazy, a half bottle of friction modifier and the sounds are gone.

Based on the description of use, 6 foot bush hog, etc..., I'd say and utility sized Ford will do the job. I'd have no qualms at all about my 2600 being up for any of those jobs. I like to go as small as will do the job, my 2600 is so nimble it's a joy to run, but does anything I need short of round baling. :)
 


Other than hp and possible tire size 2600 and 3600 are exact same size tractor, small and nimble.
4600SU has 2 inch longer wheel base than 2600-3600
4600 has 8 inch longer wb and 5 inches taller than 2600-3600
 
Ayup, that's an SU! Prolly 16.9x24 rear tires. A very handy, nimble tractor! I have a 3910, same front axle, etc, as the SU,
with a loader on it, and the front end has held up just fine!
You just need to realize it's not a bulldozer or payloader!
HTH, Dave
 
Thank you!

Speaking of tires... any good sources? The video of the tractor I have from the seller shows the front tires are pretty worn. Rears appear to be ok but I would have to inspect them for rot and/or weather checking. Any idea what brand tires originally come on these tractors? Good year, Firestone etc? Just trying to get a good idea of what I may be looking at $$$$ wise when/if I decide to bring this tractor home or negotiate further with the seller.

Also, just for the heck of it.. What about a service manual and parts manual? OEM still available or am I better off with another brand? I would like manual outlining all the parts on the tractor as well as maintenance and service procedures, torgue specs etc.
 
That vintage Ford generally came with either Firestone or Armstrong, now Titan.
I don't think "brand" will be a big deal for your application!
I would look for price!
YMMV, Dave
 
I was just looking for the wheelbase on an
SU but couldn't find it. The 2" longer
than the 26/3600 tractors sounds about
right as the rear center housing us about
that much longer.
65Plymouth, I mentioned earlier that I'm
building a tractor out of parts and pieces
here. It will have a 4000 chassis but will
have an industrial front end on it.
It will be about 3" longer than an SU,
have a heavier front axle and a hard nose
instead of the soft nose like an SU or
3000 has. I got this far last fall but
dont have a shop so hafta wait till spring
to finish it.
a252833.jpg
 
Just buy the I&T FO-41 manual from this
site. About $30. It's like a Chiltons if
you remember those. Covers the
26/36/4600s. It will cover everything you
need. I think the tires are 14.9x28 on
those. 16.9x24s might have been optional.
 

$350-500 each depending on size and brand for rear tires.
Fronts range $50-120 each, could have 6.50-16, 7.50-16 or 7.5L-15.
My 4000SU has 14.9-28 rear's but looking it the photo I thing that 4600SU as 16.9-24's, rims look smaller than mine.

Used to have Titan tires but now have a mixed assortment.
Alliance on the 4000SU, starting to dry check at 7 years old, I think they will be dry rotted long before their worn out.
Firestone 23* on the 4000, the small bars are wearing fast, won't be getting any more of those.
Micheln Agribib Radials on the 6610, sorriest tires I've ever owned, 5 years old and have had 5 flats in the last 3 years due to sidewall cracking, have spent enough on flat repairs to buy one new tire.
Akuret on the 4500, nearly new on the 3930 I parted out, figured I may as well put'm to use.
5000 is going to need tires soon, thinking about trying a set of BKT's, I've heard some good remarks about them.
 
(quoted from post at 17:35:55 01/04/18)
UD that's going to be a good looking tractor when your done.
What grill is that 3500? I like the looks of it better than my 4500.

I agree... That thing looks like it's going to be super nice and very capable. Cant wait to see it when it is done... Assuming your winters are like ours here in MI, you probably wont start work on it again until what? Late May? Lol.

In other news... Guy with the 4600su is going to try and pull it out of storage this weekend. He is going to take a bunch of additional photos and send me a "walk around" video of the entire tractor. If I like what I see, he will store it in a barn waiting for me to pick it up (week or two).

I do have a Ram 2500 pickup so towing is covered. However, I am going to need to rent a equipment trailer as I don't have anything that will move the tractor safely. I am assuming it weighs 5500-6000 lbs with unloaded tires?
 
(quoted from post at 08:44:22 01/05/18)
4500-5000 lbs with unloaded tires

Thanks... Approximate width? Like I said, for the time being the tractor will be stored in the 3rd bay of my 3 car garage. I will need to remove/cut the ROPs for sure but now that I think about it, the muffler may cause a height issue as well. Cant believe I didn't think of that...

How easy are these tractors to convert to a Horizontal system? I am assuming i would need a new manifold, gaskets, pipe, muffler, heat shields and hanger? Any idea on cost of this or maybe this is frowned upon...?
 
It's from an 83 545. Basically a couple of
series newer than your 4500. I've wanted a
hard nose for a while. Would have been
happy with a 35/4500 nose but like this
one better.
 

Some say vertical exhaust is noisier, catches on tree limbs and other low hanging items, won't go thru low doorways.
Horizontal exhaust hangs down under the tractor making it easy to catch on objects sticking up, blows up dust bad, hot exhaust in dry grass can be a fire hazard.

I've ran both but now only run vertical.

I use the 4000SU in my poultry barns, when all of the feeders, water lines and heaters are winched up to the ceiling I can not operate anything in the buildings thats over 80" tall.
I put horizontal exhaust on it but the dust it blew up was chocking and blinding me, plus while unhooking equipment after wards I burnt my fingers a couple of times on a hot draw bar or stabilizer where the exhaust had blowed on it.
I put vertical exhaust back on with a shortened muffler.

A complete horizontal exhaust (manifold, pipe, muffler) will run around 150+.

Cheapest and easiest is to remove the present muffler, go to TSC or other farm related store or eBay, get a Stanley FO-17 round muffler for around $30.
Cut some of the bottom inlet pipe off leaving enough so that when installed the muffler body is a inch or more above the hood, then cut some off of the outlet pipe till the exhaust is low enough to fit in your garage.
Most home garage doors are at least 7' (84") high, I have a Stanley muffler on my SU shortened to give me a max height of 76".
 
(quoted from post at 11:39:43 01/05/18)
Some say vertical exhaust is noisier, catches on tree limbs and other low hanging items, won't go thru low doorways.
Horizontal exhaust hangs down under the tractor making it easy to catch on objects sticking up, blows up dust bad, hot exhaust in dry grass can be a fire hazard.

I've ran both but now only run vertical.

I use the 4000SU in my poultry barns, when all of the feeders, water lines and heaters are winched up to the ceiling I can not operate anything in the buildings thats over 80" tall.
I put horizontal exhaust on it but the dust it blew up was chocking and blinding me, plus while unhooking equipment after wards I burnt my fingers a couple of times on a hot draw bar or stabilizer where the exhaust had blowed on it.
I put vertical exhaust back on with a shortened muffler.

A complete horizontal exhaust (manifold, pipe, muffler) will run around 150+.

Cheapest and easiest is to remove the present muffler, go to TSC or other farm related store or eBay, get a Stanley FO-17 round muffler for around $30.
Cut some of the bottom inlet pipe off leaving enough so that when installed the muffler body is a inch or more above the hood, then cut some off of the outlet pipe till the exhaust is low enough to fit in your garage.
Most home garage doors are at least 7' (84") high, I have a Stanley muffler on my SU shortened to give me a max height of 76".

Just what i was looking for... Perfect. Any issues with exhaust fumes in your face while operating the tractor with the shorter exhaust? Might just be something i would have to live with if i want it in the garage... or, as you mentioned, do the $150.00-200.00 conversion to Horizontal.
 

I've been around diesels for years and the fumes don't bother me
One can always get a slip on extension pipe or put the big muffler back on after pulling out of the garage, just have to remember not to pull back in before swapping the short muffler back on.

You can try the short muffler first and if you don't like it you can swap to the horizontal exhaust and have only wasted around $30
 

I've been around diesels for years and the fumes don't bother me
One can always get a slip on extension pipe or put the big muffler back on after pulling out of the garage, just have to remember not to pull back in before swapping the short muffler back on.

You can try the short muffler first and if you don't like it you can swap to the horizontal exhaust and have only wasted around $30
 

Forgot about the width question.

Measured the SU and 4500, both presently equipped with 14.9-28's
SU is at a pretty much standard setting measuring 73" wide
Wheels on the 4500 are dished out a little more at 78" wide

After thinking about it I don't remember if I ever hauled the SU on the small 96" wide utility trailer, I did haul the 3930 on the small trailer but the back tires (78" width) wouldn't fit between the fenders, we put blocks of wood on one side and drove the left tire side up on the blocks to keep it off the fender. Looked a little funny but no issues on the 400 mile trip back home.
I hauled the SU several times on a 102" wide low deck equipment trailer and it fit ok on that trailer.

You may want to ask the owner to measure the overall width of the 4600 before you rent a trailer.
 

Thanks destroyed 450. I appreciate at it. Local rental place only has an equipment trailer that is 6.5 feet between the fenders. Hope this works. If not I may have to call around some more. I did request the owner take measurements.

Any idea if there is a bumper with integrated suitcase weight bracket for the SU model? Looks like the tractor I am looking at has a homemade bumper. Really would like an original looking one with a weight bracket. Do I need to get out the welder to fab a weight bracket onto an OEM bumper assembly?
 

That's going to be close on the trailer width, you can do like I did and take some blocks of wood to drive one side up on.

I looked at the 2 photos you posted, the bumper in the 1st photo looks like a forklift rack and there's a tiller hooked to the back of the tractor.
In the 2nd photo the tiller is not there and I can't see any part of that bumper thing.
Check with the owner but I'm thinking that was something leaning against the front of the tractor and it actually doesn't have any bumper at all.

They did make weight racks for these tractors but you don't see them often.
Second option would be a set of wheel weights that fit inside the front wheels but their also a little hard to find.
Third option and what many do is have the front tires loaded

I don't have any weights on the front of my SU and get along fine without them, tractor will carry a 6 ft brush hog or 4x5 round bale of hay without getting to light in the front.

If you get the tractor put a good standard bumper on to protect the front sheet metal and try it like that, if later you feel extra weight is needed have the front tires loaded and go from there.

To me adding a lot of weight to the front of these models takes some of the nimbleness out of them.

Just my opinion but if you feel you'll need to add much weight to the front you may want to consider moving up to a full sized 4600, it has a 7" longer wheel base and is about 300 lbs heavier on the front end.

PS: See if he'll throw that tiller in on the deal, they're nice for doing gardens and small food plots.
 
Just wanted to thank everyone here on the Ford message board for all the assistance over the last week or so. Unfortunately the deal with the 4600 fell through and I have moved on.

I am in the process of purchasing a Massey Ferguson 255 which, based on my research, is a close competitor to the Ford 4600 (Similar HP, Age, wet brakes, and reliability etc)

So thanks to all of you that offered advice and opinions. I have started asking questions in a new "Massey Ferguson 255" thread on the Massey forum.

Thanks again.
Jeff
 

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