Need help with ID of my 4 cyl diesel Ford

Carle

Member
By the looks of the tractor it would seem to be late 50's or early 60's. I have lots of pictures. The dealer couldn't ID it. He gave me locations to find the serial number but I couldn't find it. Any help would be appreciated
 

If you were to tell what makes it "seem to look fifties or early sixties" That information would probably help. Most likely being a four cyl. though it is probably 58-64. The dealer probably told you to look on the horizontal flat surface just to the rear of the starter which should be on the left. However, many diesel's batteries leaked acid which tended to eat the stamped numbers away.
 
Thanks for the reply. Just not sure. It is in rough shape. But the look seems to be that era I had a real helpful parts guy at the local Ford store and I showed him My pictures. He is the one that came up with late 50's or early 60's. He also told me to look on transmission for serial number. Could only see casting numbers.
 
[i will try to upload a photo. I have lots. But will try one to start
6807.jpg
 

Front end makes me think its a 1963/1964 2000/4000 model. This web site will show you various model.. Your tractor is definitely a 53-64 model... wrong rear axles to be a naa in that series.. and the front sheet metal pushes it to the last 3 years of that series.. but again,, someone could have swap out parts.. Others will chime in... the open exhaust pretty much guarantees the engine will be froze up...



http://www.oldfordtractors.com/identify.htm
 
Definitely looks like 63-64 2000 or 4000 series sheet metal.

It may just be the angle that the picture was taken at, but it looks like it has the drop down rear axle of a row crop and the front axle and steering of a non-row crop ag chassis model.
 
(quoted from post at 02:24:04 11/28/17) Front axle is a hi-crop axle, it may have lost the 38" wheels on the rear to calcium chloride.
Do the front knees have a machined area where they go behind the hood doglegs? Also on the ID numbers, I dont know how much metal is left on the ID pad but if you can thoroughly clean that area and paint it with red oxide paint that will help a lot. Its also easier to see during different times of day at different angles. I had some that I couldnt make out anything but after that treatment I got all the numbers. They are under battery box, horizontal pad, left side. Numbers on outside edge are serial numbers and above that are model numbers. I think you can magnaflux them also.
 
(quoted from post at 21:24:04 11/27/17) Front axle is a hi-crop axle, it may have lost the 38" wheels on the rear to calcium chloride.

I thought that the front spindles looked taller than a normal ag chassis front axle, but I didn't know that the high crop model had a radius rod front axle with double sided steering like the ag chassis models. I've never seen one in person and never paid that much attention to pictures of them that I've seen in the past. I assumed that it was the same front axle and steering setup as the wide front row crops, just with taller spindles.
 
Does the fact that it has a spin on oil filter and is a 4 cylinder diesel help narrow things down?
 

They started using spin on oil filters in 59
Diesel engine came out in 58
Hood says it's a 63-64
intake pipe says it's a 63-64
Look on the side of the engine block and trans for casting numbers.
Small clutch pedal indicates it has SOS trans.
 
Once again thanks all. We have narrowed down to 63 or 64 2000 or 4000. I shall look again above starter for serial number. I did look there but now that I know it has to be there I will take the power steel brush to it. there is quite a difference in wheel base between the two models so I shall measure that as well. there are clear stamping numbers on engine and transmission. How would these numbers help?
 
(quoted from post at 22:23:34 11/27/17) Does the fact that it has a spin on oil filter and is a 4 cylinder diesel help narrow things down?

All of the 1955-1964 4 cylinder models could have a kit installed to convert them to a spin-on filter if they didn't come with one.
 

Serial number will tell what year it is but not the model.
Model number is located behind the serial number.
Casting number on the right side of the engine will tell if it's a 144 ci 2000 engine or a 172 ci 4000 engine and years that engine was produced.
If it does have the select o speed trans there's 3 different casting numbers for the six years it was used in 59-64 model tractors.
Rear axle numbers will also help in id'ing the tractor.

I'm not familure with the high crop models but the info I've found doesn't match with what I see in the photo.
The info I've found indicates a high crop is a standard utility with long drop spindles and 38" rear tires.
The photo shows a tractor with long drop spindles and off set roll crop rear axle.
Casting number and any date codes will help determine what you have.
 
(quoted from post at 10:22:42 11/28/17)
(quoted from post at 22:23:34 11/27/17) Does the fact that it has a spin on oil filter and is a 4 cylinder diesel help narrow things down?

All of the 1955-1964 4 cylinder models could have a kit installed to convert them to a spin-on filter if they didn't come with one.

True that using the adapter any model can have the spin on filter, but the 60-64 172 block C0NN6015J block was cast for spin on filter and didn't use the adapter.
 

Serial number will tell what year it is but not the model.
Model number is located behind the serial number.
Casting number on the right side of the engine will tell if it's a 144 ci 2000 engine or a 172 ci 4000 engine and years that engine was produced.
If it does have the select o speed trans there's 3 different casting numbers for the six years it was used in 59-64 model tractors.
Rear axle numbers will also help in id'ing the tractor.

I'm not familure with the high crop models but the info I've found doesn't match with what I see in the photo.
The info I've found indicates a high crop is a standard utility with long drop spindles and 38" rear tires.
The photo shows a tractor with long drop spindles and off set roll crop rear axle.
Casting number and any date codes will help determine what you have.
 

Provided everything is original, especially the hood and air intake at the manifold, that is a 4000 of the 63-64 vintage. 2000s would have been all blue except for fenders and wheels.
 

Agree, 4000 gray hood, 2000 blue hood, if original paint or correct repaint
Didn't know 2000 had a different intake pipe.

Edit: After searching I'm guessing your referring the intake pipe being for a 63 or later model, same pipe used on both models.
 
(quoted from post at 09:04:17 11/28/17)
Serial number will tell what year it is but not the model.
Model number is located behind the serial number.
Casting number on the right side of the engine will tell if it's a 144 ci 2000 engine or a 172 ci 4000 engine and years that engine was produced.
If it does have the select o speed trans there's 3 different casting numbers for the six years it was used in 59-64 model tractors.
Rear axle numbers will also help in id'ing the tractor.

I'm not familure with the high crop models but the info I've found doesn't match with what I see in the photo.
The info I've found indicates a high crop is a standard utility with long drop spindles and 38" rear tires.
The photo shows a tractor with long drop spindles and off set roll crop rear axle.
Casting number and any date codes will help determine what you have.

Every pic that Have ever seen of a 4 cyl. row crop has been based on the row crop chassis. I have never seen one that was based on the utility chassis. A google search will show 3-4.
 
(quoted from post at 16:11:39 11/28/17)
Edit: After searching I'm guessing your referring the intake pipe being for a 63 or later model, same pipe used on both models.

Yep! you got it figured out. I don't know when they quit that ugly big square box intake, but know 63-64 000s didn't have it anymore.
 

My 62 881D has the box air cleaner, do care much for it but don't care for the air cleaners hanging off the side of the hood ether.
To bad the battery got in the way of the under hood gas type air cleaner on the diesel models.
 
OK thanks everyone. I am not going to see the tractor until early next week to check out everything I have been told to positively ID this tractor.I will advise this forum when I do. Thanks
 
OK I have spent some time getting numbers. And sure enough the serial and model number were right where you guys told me to look. Unfortunately they are hard to read.
Model# 12010 can't be certain
Serial# 160234 or 10234 The last three numbers were clear. Pretty much a guess of first two numbers. So not sure how much help that is.
Left side of engine. Just above oil pan. 4030
right side of engine. CONN60115J
Right side of trans. 310835 below that 3J9

The wheelbase was 76". That points to a model 2000 I believe.
Comments fellas?
Thanks
 

Guys, correct if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there was a 12010 model in that era. It could be a 41201, 4000 w/4 spd and 540 PTO.
 
(quoted from post at 16:15:43 12/04/17)
Guys, correct if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there was a 12010 model in that era. It could be a 41201, 4000 w/4 spd and 540 PTO.

Can't edit so an add: Forgot this is a diesel, therefore you're partially reading your model # which is 41201D rather than 12010. Your final digit is actually the D rather than 0. The D suffix designates a diesel powered unit. Gasoline units would not have a suffix.
 

Model # 12010 doesn't work, look to see if there's another number in front of the 1, also make sure the last 0 isn't a D

C0NN60115J has too many 1's
C0NN6015J is a 172 ci engine number used on the 4000 model

If the model # is 41201D it would be
4 = 4000
1= built in 63
20 = utility type with adjustable wide front axle
1 = 4 spd trans with pto
D = diesel engine

Serial # 160234 is consistent with a 63 model tractor
 
yes I was wrong only one 1.
CONN6015J
I really am not going to be able to do better on the model/serial #'s. Badly corroded.
 
Also on my Ford, how much stock can we put into the wheelbase? Tractor specs say the 2000 is 75.8 inches and the 4000 is 84.5
inches. It definitely measures the shorter one.
 

None at all.

2000 and 4000 utilities have the same wheel base
2000 and 4000 roll crops have the same well base
The different wheels bases is between utilities and roll crops, also roll crop wide front has a longer wheel base than narrow front.
 
If you got those wheelbase numbers from tractordata.com, well.... they have been known to be incorrect... probably about 20% to 30% of the information on their web site is suspect in my eyes.
 
OK. Now to summarize. We seem to be in agreement my tractor is a 4000.
- pictures seem to suggest a 4000
- right colour hood
- the stamping number on engine indicates a 4000
- wheelbase dimension does not change between 2000 and 4000

Does the group think I will be safe in ordering parts for a 4000?
The tractor has been stored outside in a dusty dry environment for at least 15 years. I am expecting lots of engine work and all
components surrounding engine. Hopefully rear end and transmission will be mostly ok. Can anyone suggest a major problem I might
have? Any suggestions for getting parts? Anyone done something similar and can suggest what I might be spending (not including
labour) to get it in a good running condition? Not show room condition. But all things working and looking fairly good with new
tires and paint.
 

Well everything indicates it's a 4000, engine numbers, what model numbers you could find, paint colors, but the numbers also indicate it's a utility, and it has a utility front axle with high crop spindles, but after a closer look at the photo it sure looks like it has a roll crop rear axle.
Can you post some more photos from the sides and rear.
I've been under the impression a high crop was a utility with tall front spindles and 38" rear tires on a standard utility rear axle, but that's not what I'm seeing in the photo.
Also those photos of all sides would give us a better idea of what you have to work with and need.
 
(quoted from post at 23:45:15 12/05/17)
roll crop

You've used this term several times. I think you mean "row crop"

And yes, the picture of the rear end definitely is that of a row crop 4000. Likely the transmission has been swapped in out of an all purpose.

Go to John Smith's Ford Tractor History and scroil way down to find the early 000 series.
 
OK Larry, should I be loading photos differently? Not sure what you mean. I have a few more if I can get my fat fingers to hit the right buttons. Why do you think transmission has been swapped out?
 
I'm not sure why your pictures didn't load when you tried to post them. I've posted them below. It's best to put each image with it "img" and "/img" tags on a separate line, otherwise if they do display the web page will load with them all next to each other and we will have to scroll our browser left to right to see them all.

7187.jpg


7188.jpg


7190.jpg


7191.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 09:48:14 12/06/17) OK Larry, should I be loading photos differently? Not sure what you mean. I have a few more if I can get my fat fingers to hit the right buttons. Why do you think transmission has been swapped out?

Sean helped you load photos.

What I meant is that this, John Smith's Ford Tractor History , is a link to his website page detailing Ford tractor models from 1939 to 1964.

If you look really closely at "John Smith's Ford Tractor History" in the paragraph above you can tell it is dark blue rather than black like the rest of the text. If you hover over if it turns to red and it's underlined. If you click on it, it'll pull up that page of his website where you'll find some interesting and valuable Ford tractor history.
 
(quoted from post at 09:48:14 12/06/17) OK Why do you think transmission has been swapped out?

Oops forgot to answer this one. The reason I think the transmission has been swapped is that you have a partial all purpose or utility model number stamped on the transmission and your tractor is very obviously (the rear end and drop box photos) a row crop version.
 
(quoted from post at 12:58:38 12/06/17)
(quoted from post at 09:48:14 12/06/17) OK Why do you think transmission has been swapped out?

Oops forgot to answer this one. The reason I think the transmission has been swapped is that you have a partial all purpose or utility model number stamped on the transmission and your tractor is very obviously (the rear end and drop box photos) a row crop version.

Well... all we really know for sure is that all of the components on that tractor did not leave the factory together. It could be that the rear end was swapped, or the transmission, or that it was pieced together from parts from a number of different tractors. Getting the date codes off of the major components would hopefully get you a majority "vote" on when most of the components were assembled if there is a majority that were assembled within a month or three of each other, and then you might be able to deduce from which components those are as to what the majority of the tractor was when it left the factory.
 
I have four more photos I shall try and share. I jacked up rear wheels and there are problems with the drop boxes on both sides. Wouldn’t surprise me if that was the reason it was parked all those years ago.


7315.jpg
http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/7316.jpg[/img]
7317.jpg
 
Definitely ag style radius rod front end but with taller than normal spindles, and a row crop rear axle.

When you need parts for the rear axle and 3 point lift linkage look for 901 series or 4 cylinder 4000 row crop parts. When you need parts for anything else except the front spindles look for 801 or 4 cylinder 4000 series parts. I can't find those front spindles anywhere in the parts diagrams unless they used high clearance row crop axle ends on a standard ag chassis axle center.
 
(quoted from post at 19:14:58 12/08/17)
It is apparently a legitimate high crop even though not all the parts are original.

I do not see a "high crop" model listed in the parts drawings. I do see a "High Clearance Row Crop" model listed and it has the regular row crop rear axle, and the front axle setup from a wide front row crop, but with taller spindles. That tractor has a radius rod front axle like a general purpose ag chassis model, not a wide front row crop front axle, but it has the taller spindles like a row crop.
 

Like Dean I could only find the high clearance (high crop) axles and spindles in a row crop model listing.
With all of the modifications done to the hood, dash support and other components, though I hate to say it, I can only surmise that this tractor is a home made mutt.

I believe this tractor may have left the factory as a high clearance row crop model, but at some point the row crop front was wrecked or removed for some reason and a attempt was made to install a utility front support and steering.

Before I did much of anything to that tractor I'd check to see if the drive train was of usable condition. To me it would take a lot of time and money to get it back to a usable tractor, unless one has a junk row crop to rob the needed parts from.

That said, I don't think I'd junk it out, high clearance row crops are a bit rare.

With the last number in the model number possibly being a D instead of a 0.
D would be the suffix letter for a diesel engine which the tractor has.
4 is the suffix number for a high clearance wide front model.
But did Ford ever add 2 suffix numbers-letters to indicate a tractor had more than one option.
If not how can one verify a tractor like this is a diesel high clearance model.
 
(quoted from post at 13:10:29 12/09/17)
Like Dean I could only find the high clearance (high crop) axles and spindles in a row crop model listing.
With all of the modifications done to the hood, dash support and other components, though I hate to say it, I can only surmise that this tractor is a home made mutt.

I believe this tractor may have left the factory as a high clearance row crop model, but at some point the row crop front was wrecked or removed for some reason and a attempt was made to install a utility front support and steering.

Before I did much of anything to that tractor I'd check to see if the drive train was of usable condition. To me it would take a lot of time and money to get it back to a usable tractor, unless one has a junk row crop to rob the needed parts from.

That said, I don't think I'd junk it out, high clearance row crops are a bit rare.

With the last number in the model number possibly being a D instead of a 0.
D would be the suffix letter for a diesel engine which the tractor has.
4 is the suffix number for a high clearance wide front model.
But did Ford ever add 2 suffix numbers-letters to indicate a tractor had more than one option.
If not how can one verify a tractor like this is a diesel high clearance model.

I believe that they did use multiple suffixes if the tractor had more than one option that would call for a suffix.

The model number that's on the transmission claims it is a general purpose ag chassis, not a row crop at all and a high clearance row crop would have a row crop model number with the 4 as a suffix.

But that number is on the transmission so the transmission was not in the same tractor that the rear axle was when they left the factory. As I said in an earlier post, that's all you can really say without knowing the date codes on all of the major components to get a "vote" on what the majority of the tractor is.
 
I have made the decision to retrieve this tractor tomorrow and take it to my shop for further investigation. I have not made the decision to restore just to keep checking things.

Rear drop boxes. When jacked up the wheel turn backwards fine. One side goes forward but grudgingly. The other side will not go forward. I am guessing the brake pads are binding.

Transmission seems fine. Shifts in and out of gears.

Serial number. Haven't given up on it. Once back in shop I shall try to see more numbers.

First thing I want is to get the head off and have a look. Then take rear wheels off and check it all out.

I do not think much of the tin will be usable. I shall be looking for better condition used parts if and when I go ahead.

Thanks very much everyone. Very good feedback from all.
 
OK. got the tractor in shop. Rear wheels did turn alright.
Model # update. As you guys told me last digit is a D. Younger eyes than mine think the model # is 1281D. Not sure how that adds to things.
 
(quoted from post at 17:17:06 12/11/17) OK. got the tractor in shop. Rear wheels did turn alright.
Model # update. As you guys told me last digit is a D. Younger eyes than mine think the model # is 1281D. Not sure how that adds to things.

Beginning number is still missing, should be a 2 or 4
Double check but I think the 8 is actually a 0

Google www.oldfordtractors.com, Identifying Old Ford Tractors.
Scroll down to the section on 62-64 2-4-6000 tractors
There's a list of number combinations you can compare to to ID the tractor as best as possible.
 

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