Points keep failing

kmacht

Member
I'm at my wits end with points. I have a 63 ford 4000 and when it runs it runs great. The problem is trying to get it to run. If I let the tractor sit for more than a day or so it won't fire at all. I have to pull the distributor cap off and swipe the points a few times with some 1000 grit sandpaper. Once I do that it runs great again. I have tried points from tractor supply, napa, and even from this site. The tractor is setup for 12 volts. The coil is a generic 12v coil from napa with "no external resistor required" stamped on it. The points are set correctly and the ignition shuts the voltage to them off when the key is out. It is like they get a thin film of corrosion each time they sit. The points don't have any burn marks or discoloration on them. If I shut the tractor off and re-start it immediately or a half hour later it runs fine. It is just when it sits overnight. Any ideas? I'm ready to put in a pertronix kit if it comes to that.

Keith
 
(quoted from post at 16:09:53 08/30/17) I'm at my wits end with points. I have a 63 ford 4000 and when it runs it runs great. The problem is trying to get it to run. If I let the tractor sit for more than a day or so it won't fire at all. I have to pull the distributor cap off and swipe the points a few times with some 1000 grit sandpaper. Once I do that it runs great again. I have tried points from tractor supply, napa, and even from this site. The tractor is setup for 12 volts. The coil is a generic 12v coil from napa with "no external resistor required" stamped on it. The points are set correctly and the ignition shuts the voltage to them off when the key is out. It is like they get a thin film of corrosion each time they sit. The points don't have any burn marks or discoloration on them. If I shut the tractor off and re-start it immediately or a half hour later it runs fine. It is just when it sits overnight. Any ideas? I'm ready to put in a pertronix kit if it comes to that.

Keith
"no external resistor required" stamped on it. ........does it have such a resistor?
 
Next tin it wont start, pull son string white paper thru the points, see if it runs.

If yes, look at the paper and see what came off.

Are you in a super humid area?

Once you run sand paper over the points, you remove the microns thick hard surface on them, and they will continue to degrade faster and faster now.

Run a napkin in the cap and dizzy.. Any oily residue? If yes, check crank vent. Oily smoke in the dizzy will coat the points and cause a glaze to build up on the breaker contacts.

Also..

If very humid, clean the dizzy and cap with brake cleaner, then relube the points cam, then apply a smear of grease to the cap edge that meets the dizzy.

If you have any de oxit cleaner or electric motor cleaner, clean the breaker contacts with it, allow to air dry.

Make sure you are not over living the points cam and contaminating the breaker contacts. Low temp greases are not ideal. High temp silicone, and high tack/film strength / synthetic greases are what this calls for, and a dab 'l do ya.

Post back.
 

If I ta tot' MOM on my arse and done cart wheels it would read WOW MOM WOW MOM...

Dat was good WOW...

My first thought Its contamination of some sort...
 
(quoted from post at 03:02:13 08/31/17)
You might want to check your distributor shaft sideplay. I just saw 2 that had to be throwing the point gap off. Just holding them on the point breakers and wiggling the shaft they opened about as much as the normal point gap. I hear good things about the pertronics. Someone said you have to take a dremel and grind part of the dust cap where there is interference.
 
Replace the points and do not again use sandpaper or a point file. Rather, burnish the contacts with an IBM card or a piece of brown paper bag to remove the corrosion.

The corrosion protection on commonly available contact sets is vanishingly thin. A point file or similar abrasive removes it, resulting in rapidly developing corrosion in high humidity ambient.

Dean
 
I've got the very same tractor, I put pertronix ignition on mine almost 3 years ago, best thing I ever did, I always had to replace the condenser when I needed to use the tractor
 
I'll try the white paper trick to see if there is anything on there. The inside of the distributor looks pretty clean when I remove the dust cap but based on the amount of leaked hydraulic fluid and oil covering the rest of the tractor it is all relative. There doesn't appear to be much if any play in the distributor shaft so I don't think the bushings are worn. I have replaced the condenser each time I replaced the points. I had one obviously bad condenser as there was a blue spark coming off between the points and they quickly burnt up after I installed them. The current issue doesn't seem to be leaving any visible burn marks on the points. For reference I am in Connecticut. It is humid here in the summer but not like it is down south. The tractor is stored inside a dry garage with a cement floor when not in use. The only thing I found helps a little is if I shut the tractor down by using the choke rather than shutting the engine off with the ignition. It isn't a 100% reliable fix but does seem to make the restart a day or two later more likely.

Keith
 
Choking a tractor down floods the cyls with gas and washes lube off the walls, leading to accelerated wear, and constant gas thinned oil. Not good.

The fact that something like that helps leads me to believe it is something other than points.

What do the plugs look like?
 
Plugs were a bit fowled with carbon so I replaced them with new autolites at the same time I replaced the points and condenser two weeks ago. The tractor did the same thing with the points the very next day. I'm sure it is the points and not the plugs. If I let it sit for a day it will just turn and turn without firing. I checked to make sure it wasn't firing by hooking a timing light up to one of the plug wires. As soon as I pulled the distributor cap and cleaned the points with the 1000 grit sandpaper it fired right up within 1 revolution. I have also tried just pulling the cap and rotor and putting them back on and it makes no difference.

Keith
 
(quoted from post at 14:32:47 08/31/17) Plugs were a bit fowled with carbon so I replaced them with new autolites at the same time I replaced the points and condenser two weeks ago. The tractor did the same thing with the points the very next day. I'm sure it is the points and not the plugs. If I let it sit for a day it will just turn and turn without firing. I checked to make sure it wasn't firing by hooking a timing light up to one of the plug wires. As soon as I pulled the distributor cap and cleaned the points with the 1000 grit sandpaper it fired right up within 1 revolution. I have also tried just pulling the cap and rotor and putting them back on and it makes no difference.

Keith
ne-day points corrosion, huh?
 
Pull white paper thru, loose the sand paper. See what happens, if it helps, get some deoxit spray and clean the points with it.
 
(quoted from post at 17:21:07 08/31/17) Pull white paper thru, loose the sand paper. See what happens, if it helps, get some deoxit spray and clean the points with it.
ome on now! White paper! You are going to offend some sensitivities! Use brown or rainbow colored paper! :twisted:
 

Either.. dist is full of moisture or.. your running china points.. or both...

Get a U.S. set of points from blue streak, echilin, or neihoff and they will have the special tungsten coating on them.
 

I believe I got Echlin points from Napa some 8 yrs ago or so. I don't run my 971 as hard as others, but haven't touched them since and it starts/runs great.

Chris
 
After the tractor started running like crap 10 minutes after starting it I traced it down to yet another condenser failing. I gave up on Saturday and ordered the pertronix kit from Amazon. Surprisingly it was delivered on Monday (labor day). I installed it in about 20 minutes and the tractor now runs better than ever. It starts almost instantly, takes throttle smoothly, and what I thought may be a bad valve on one cylinder causing a random popping sound has completely disappeared. Well worth the $90 to never have to mess with points and condensors again.

Keith
 

I ran across condenser issues on a 860 this summer... He had put a couple new ones from napa in it.. I had a used one laying around it fixed it... Napa must have a bad batch....
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top