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Ford 601 PTO doesnt engage

P

pete minurka

New User
I bought a 601 ford tractor with select - O- speed to brush hog my field. When I tried to engage the PTO handle that is mounted on the right side of the fender it wouldn't move in or out. I didn't realize that's how you engage the PTO. I didn't get any info when I bought it. I thought it engaged from the side using lever like on 8,9, and NAA tractors. Does anyone any info that would help me out. I stuck with a tractor with a PTO that doesn't work, Thanks
 
(quoted from post at 08:21:48 08/27/17) It could be your cable or cable rod is stuck if not moving, or broken cable, if moving.
Click to expand...

Thanks, the cable is frozen up but all the way in the engaged position and PTO not working. I noticed that it is spinning but can stop it with my hand. I guess ill have to tear into it and see what I find.
 
(quoted from post at 10:40:12 08/27/17)
(quoted from post at 08:21:48 08/27/17) It could be your cable or cable rod is stuck if not moving, or broken cable, if moving.
Click to expand...

Thanks, the cable is frozen up but all the way in the engaged position and PTO not working. I noticed that it is spinning but can stop it with my hand. I guess ill have to tear into it and see what I find.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're saying here. The PTO control handle is in the dash, not the fender.

To be honest, it sounds to me as one who's somewhat familiar with a Select-O-Speed, that you lack sufficient knowledge about the SOS to be tearing into it. You could very easily make a small problem very big, especially on an SOS.

First question I need answered to help you: Is this a 671 or 681? 601 is the series number. 2nd: is your PTO engagement cable all the way in against the dash or is it pulled out? Or is it even in the dash where it belongs? If it's on the fender somebody's really messed with it.
 
(quoted from post at 09:33:49 08/27/17)
(quoted from post at 10:40:12 08/27/17)
(quoted from post at 08:21:48 08/27/17) It could be your cable or cable rod is stuck if not moving, or broken cable, if moving.
Click to expand...

Thanks, the cable is frozen up but all the way in the engaged position and PTO not working. I noticed that it is spinning but can stop it with my hand. I guess ill have to tear into it and see what I find.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're saying here. The PTO control handle is in the dash, not the fender.

To be honest, it sounds to me as one who's somewhat familiar with a Select-O-Speed, that you lack sufficient knowledge about the SOS to be tearing into it. You could very easily make a small problem very big, especially on an SOS.

First question I need answered to help you: Is this a 671 or 681? 601 is the series number. 2nd: is your PTO engagement cable all the way in against the dash or is it pulled out? Or is it even in the dash where it belongs? If it's on the fender somebody's really messed with it.
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Yes its a 671, and the cable is in the dash, sorry about not to familiar with this tractor. Handle /cable push all the way in. When I release the clutch the PTO starts spinning bot not fast enough. I tried brush hogging and soon as lowered on to the field it stopped.
 
Let me bring you up to speed a little:

1. Your tractor has no clutch. It has an inching pedal (hydraulic feathering valve in the transmission)

2. The inching pedal has absolutely nothing to do with the operation of your PTO or lack thereof.

3. PTO handle pushed all the way in is disengaged. You need to pull it out to the end of its travel, approximately 1.5 - 2 inches, to engage the PTO.

4. If it's a 671 and you can't pull the cable out, you've got cable problems. You'll need to free up the cable or replace it.

5. It is normal for the PTO on an SOS tractor to spin under no load.
Click to expand...
 

K thanks I'll try and pull out the cable but it seems to be frozen in place, it wont pull out easy. I got a manual and was reading through it. I will try and free up the cable and go from there. I have been searching the web for a cable and none available at present. Thanks so much for all your help. Any info you have would be appreciated. Pete
 

I worked on the PTO cable today and its not frozen. It slides in the casing with ease. I'm thinking on removing the top transmission cover and looking inside. I read in the manual that there is valves in there. Not sure why it wont engage yet. Any help would be great.
 
(quoted from post at 10:27:40 08/28/17)
I worked on the PTO cable today and its not frozen. It slides in the casing with ease. I'm thinking on removing the top transmission cover and looking inside. I read in the manual that there is valves in there. Not sure why it wont engage yet. Any help would be great.
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I'm still working on getting both cables disconnected from the trany plate. removed 4 screws from the shifter assy. having hard time removing shifter assy from cable.
 
(quoted from post at 13:27:40 08/28/17)
I worked on the PTO cable today and its not frozen. It slides in the casing with ease. I'm thinking on removing the top transmission cover and looking inside. I read in the manual that there is valves in there. Not sure why it wont engage yet. Any help would be great.
Click to expand...

Do not open the top cover without following the proper procedures as laid out in the service manual. If you do it incorrectly you can cause a lot of problems. Also, you need to know if yours has the original Over Running Clutch (ORC) version of the transmission or the later Direct Drive Clutch (DDC) version to know which manual you should be looking at. While the top cover removal procedures are basically the same for the ORC and DDC versions, once you have it opened up things inside are different between the two.

The PTO not engaging could be something as simple as an incorrectly adjusted cable, which can be fixed without opening up the transmission, to something as complex as a hydraulic leak at the PTO clutch pack, which requires a complete disassembly of the transmission, as that PTO clutch pack is the last thing to come out when disassembling, and the first thing to go back in, so you really should get the proper manual and follow all of the troubleshooting procedures and external adjustments first before opening anything up.
 
(quoted from post at 12:38:27 08/28/17)
(quoted from post at 13:27:40 08/28/17)
I worked on the PTO cable today and its not frozen. It slides in the casing with ease. I'm thinking on removing the top transmission cover and looking inside. I read in the manual that there is valves in there. Not sure why it wont engage yet. Any help would be great.
Click to expand...

Do not open the top cover without following the proper procedures as laid out in the service manual. If you do it incorrectly you can cause a lot of problems. Also, you need to know if yours has the original Over Running Clutch (ORC) version of the transmission or the later Direct Drive Clutch (DDC) version to know which manual you should be looking at. While the top cover removal procedures are basically the same for the ORC and DDC versions, once you have it opened up things inside are different between the two.

The PTO not engaging could be something as simple as an incorrectly adjusted cable, which can be fixed without opening up the transmission, to something as complex as a hydraulic leak at the PTO clutch pack, which requires a complete disassembly of the transmission, as that PTO clutch pack is the last thing to come out when disassembling, and the first thing to go back in, so you really should get the proper manual and follow all of the troubleshooting procedures and external adjustments first before opening anything up.
Click to expand...

Hey thanks a lot, Your expertise is appreciated. I haven't opened up the top cover as of yet. How do I know if I have ORC or DDC. The manual has no mention of either one.? I did change the oil today for starters 11.5 qts. you mentioned it could simply be a adjustment on the cable HOW and where is the adj. I really worried that the problem is bad.
 
Hey thanks a lot, Your expertise is appreciated. I haven't opened up the top cover as of yet. How do I know if I have ORC or DDC. The manual has no mention of either one.? I did change the oil today for starters 11.5 qts. you mentioned it could simply be a adjustment on the cable HOW and where is the adj. I really worried that the problem is bad.
Click to expand...

What manual do you have? The Standard Ford Service manual for 1955-1964 tractors only covers the ORC transmission. There is a supplement called the 2000 & 4000 S-O-S Supplement, that covers the DDC transmission. The DDC version came out when the 4 cylinder 2000 & 40000 models came out and Ford also had a program to retrofit the earlier '01 series models that originally came with the ORC to the trans with the DDC because of the problems with the earlier design. Not all '01 tractors received the retrofit so there are '01 models out there with both. The earlier ORC transmission should have a raised casting number on the side of 312259. DDC transmissions should have a raised casting number that starts with either C0NN, C3NN or C5NN I believe.
 
(quoted from post at 16:23:37 08/28/17)
Hey thanks a lot, Your expertise is appreciated. I haven't opened up the top cover as of yet. How do I know if I have ORC or DDC. The manual has no mention of either one.? I did change the oil today for starters 11.5 qts. you mentioned it could simply be a adjustment on the cable HOW and where is the adj. I really worried that the problem is bad.
Click to expand...

What manual do you have? The Standard Ford Service manual for 1955-1964 tractors only covers the ORC transmission. There is a supplement called the 2000 & 4000 S-O-S Supplement, that covers the DDC transmission. The DDC version came out when the 4 cylinder 2000 & 40000 models came out and Ford also had a program to retrofit the earlier '01 series models that originally came with the ORC to the trans with the DDC because of the problems with the earlier design. Not all '01 tractors received the retrofit so there are '01 models out there with both. The earlier ORC transmission should have a raised casting number on the side of 312259. DDC transmissions should have a raised casting number that starts with either C0NN, C3NN or C5NN I believe.
Click to expand...

Ok Thanks for all the info and all the help I really appreciated it. You are the Man! Its all fixed. When I disconnected the cable and handle assy I kept squirting WD40 in the cable housing at the top of the cable and the bottom of the cable on top of the transmission plate. I walk away for a few hours. When I got back to it I tried the cable and it moved in and out. Must have been frozen at the plate. Took it for a test drive all good. I do have one more question, the manual said to use 80 weight hydraulic fluid for the transmission. Is that correct? Tractor supply has hydraulic transmission fluid is that ok to use. the manual calls for M2C41 not available anymore. Thanks again your great!!! Glad I didn't take the transmission cover off that would have opened a can of worms..
 

If it says use 80W in an SOS, you got the wrong manual for sure and for certain!

Find an oil that "meets or exceeds" the Ford/NH M2C-134D spec. If it doesn't have that spec on the container don't use it. If it has that spec and says anything other than meets or exceeds, run . . . don't walk . . . away from it!
 
(quoted from post at 20:25:36 08/28/17)
If it says use 80W in an SOS, you got the wrong manual for sure and for certain!

Find an oil that "meets or exceeds" the Ford/NH M2C-134D spec. If it doesn't have that spec on the container don't use it. If it has that spec and says anything other than meets or exceeds, run . . . don't walk . . . away from it!
Click to expand...

Hi again, I spoke with New Holland dealer today and the M2C41 isn't available and they also said the 134D isn't either. They have the correct oils I need that are compatable. I didn't get the name or numbers but will. They told me the blend they use can be used both Transmission and Hydraulics. They also said some people use it in the rear end diff. I always used 80-90 in the rear ends. Just cant get a straight answer!!!
 

Think you need a different NH dealer. I had not heard 134D is obsolete at NH.

I sell for Archer Petroleum Our Archer Uni-Fluid XP meets or exceeds these Ford/NH specs: [b:e699a0a4f3]M2C41-B[/b:e699a0a4f3], M2C48-B M2C53-A, M2C86-B/C, [b:e699a0a4f3]M2C134-C/D[/b:e699a0a4f3], Multi-G 134 Fluid, MAT3525, NH-410B, MasterTran, MAT3505, NH-410C

Plus a whole host of other manufacturer's specs.

Don't know your location. Archer is regional. You may or may not have access to it in your area. Archer was developed in 1929 to keep rotary engine aircraft from landing before they were supposed to!. Within a year's time it turned towards agriculture. It is a product that in my estimation can't be beat. I've been using it since the mid 70s.
 
(quoted from post at 14:06:04 08/29/17) or exceeds, run . . . don't walk . . . away from it!
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Hi again, I spoke with New Holland dealer today and the M2C41 isn't available and they also said the 134D isn't either. They have the correct oils I need that are compatable. I didn't get the name or numbers but will. They told me the blend they use can be used both Transmission and Hydraulics. They also said some people use it in the rear end diff. I always used 80-90 in the rear ends. Just cant get a straight answer!!![/quote]ttps://partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/AGIndDouglassville/lubricants-134-hydraulic-oil-5-gallon-us-p1141246.html?csid=854d1987bcf98f5ea00eda896c08790e&sl=EN&currency=[/url]

I can be used in manual or S-O-S transmissions, as well as the hydraulic sump and rear axle of your 671, as well as the power steering reservoir if yours has power steering. Most folks do use it in all 3 sumps for a couple of reasons:

1. it is simpler to keep one type of fluid on hand. That way you're never confused as to which fluid to use in which sump and you won't accidentally put gear oil the S-O-S transmission.

2. It prevents cross contamination if the seals between the sumps leak, which is common on those old tractors.
 
(quoted from post at 12:47:39 08/29/17)
(quoted from post at 14:06:04 08/29/17) or exceeds, run . . . don't walk . . . away from it!
Click to expand...

Hi again, I spoke with New Holland dealer today and the M2C41 isn't available and they also said the 134D isn't either. They have the correct oils I need that are compatable. I didn't get the name or numbers but will. They told me the blend they use can be used both Transmission and Hydraulics. They also said some people use it in the rear end diff. I always used 80-90 in the rear ends. Just cant get a straight answer!!!
Click to expand...

M2C41 was the spec when that tractor was new. It has been superseded by the M2C134D spec that Larry gave you. Your dealer is lying if they are telling you that 134 fluid is no longer available. The latest incarnation of it from New Holland is called "Multi-G 134". Here is a link to it on the New Holland we site:

https://partstore.agriculture.newho...98f5ea00eda896c08790e&sl=EN&currency=

I can be used in manual or S-O-S transmissions, as well as the hydraulic sump and rear axle of your 671, as well as the power steering reservoir if yours has power steering. Most folks do use it in all 3 sumps for a couple of reasons:

1. it is simpler to keep one type of fluid on hand. That way you're never confused as to which fluid to use in which sump and you won't accidentally put gear oil the S-O-S transmission.

2. It prevents cross contamination if the seals between the sumps leak, which is common on those old tractors.[/quote]

K thanks, I'll get that oil and change it. 1 question I have should I use that in my rear end diff and is it ok. always used gear oil 80-90 ?
 
="pete minurka
K thanks, I'll get that oil and change it. 1 question I have should I use that in my rear end diff and is it ok. always used gear oil 80-90 ?
Click to expand...

It can be used in the rear end. I'm with you though. I still like the 80W-90 in the differential.
 
I have to use it in the rear end of my '73 4000 because of the wet brakes. It has additives that keep wet brakes and clutches from slipping, as well as the EP additives necessary for the meshing gears in both the rear end and the transmission. Thinner oils without an EP additive will get displaced from the mating surfaces of gears due to the pressure, and that is why heavier gear oils were used in manual transmissions and rear axles back in the day, but modern extreme pressure (EP) additives provide the ability for thinner oils to remain and coat the surfaces of meshing gear surfaces and provide proper lubrication even under extreme conditions.
 
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