Ford 5600 - things to look for when buying???

Guys,

Need some help here. I'm looking at a '79 Ford 5600. 2 wheel drive, diesel, ROPS, 8-speed. The tractor has about 6300 hours on it, and had the rod bearings replaced about 100 hours ago.

Wondering if there are any specific issues with the 5600 I need to look for, or any specific inspection points on this tractor I should check.

Other than the bearings and seemingly high hours (concerning) the tractor is very clean and straight. They're asking $8500 for it. Based on the photo and these issues - does that seem reasonable?

I understand there was an option for a rear differential lock on the 5600 - how do I tell if this option is included from looking at the tractor?

Thanks!

Tim
 
Trying to get the photo figured out...
a169142.jpg
 
The differential lock will be a cast iron pedal behind your right heel. I have a 5000 that has been a gem whether tillage or haying. The guys on the board here like them. I don't know about the X600 series features; mine are all X000's.
Hope it works out for you.
 
Check the normal things, fluid levels, listen for any strange noises, check the pto to see how it engages and if it will stop, if they are used on big mowers without an overrunning clutch they will wear out the pto brake.

The 5600 is kind of an odd man out like the early 5000's with the 233 engine, if it wasn't changed.
 
Okay, I have more details... It is actually a 16 speed not an 8-speed. The PTO engages and disengages very easily and brakes well. However at low RPMs there is quite a bit of PTO chatter. The Deere dealer it is sitting at said this is normal at low RPM. Does this sound normal?

I had them put it on there Dino and at 540 RPM it was reading approximately 52 horsepower and had some bull by under load but not at idle or when running at high speed with no load.

Based on the other 5600 tractors I am seeing out online today $8500 seems reasonable as the tractor other than the blow by is in really good shape
 
The 16 speed is an 8-speed with Dual Power - a power-shifted underdrive for each gear. Great transmission! Some blowby is to be expected. I wouldn't call that high hours... my 7600 has well over 8000, and the engine hasn't been touched. If that's the size you need, I'd say go for it. But it wouldn't hurt to offer a bit less than they're asking.
 

The x600 series is to me, about the best of the fords... much improved over a 5000,, driver comforts as better power steering and higher hydraulic flow put it near the top of all the IMPORTANT improvements that have come.

Improvements after that... yes but they were more so for cleaner engine... although later models did also improve hydraulic flow, this series had enough to run a loader well, easy power steering and was about as perfect as one could get.

As one person said, the ford 5000 was an all time great tractor along with the jd 4010, but the 5600 fixed everything wrong on the 5000 just as john deere fix the problems on the 4010 with the 4020 series... everything that came after that was just more gravy and dressing.

Most all of this series will have a bit of chatter on the pilot shaft/ clutch area at an idle.. Perhaps Bern or Rick will comment more on why..

Things I dont like....

Dual power can and will go out, on difficult to fix on the cab models for the average individual due having to deal with the cab.. So a lot of tractors I get have had it removed, and I consider that a plus.

Pto pilot shaft will strip at the flywheel. Seen this a bit more often than I like on heavily used hay tractors.

Both of these problems extend forwards and backwards on newer and older models so they are not unique to the x600 series as far as I have seen.. Maybe again Rick and Bern will comment.

As to your tractor having the rod bearings replaced.. That gives me wonder as to what was going on... And most all diesels have some blowby, a lot of blowby that is obvious and smokey is not a good sign, so a little is very normal, a lot is a problem.
 
PTO rattle at low idle - no load is quite normal. If it goes away when you rev up the engine, ignore it. It's called 4-cylinder engine harmonics.
 
I disagree with your comments about life expectancy on the Dual Power. In a 5600, it will last about as long as any DP could - it certainly
is not being stretched to the limits of capacity like say on a 9700.

You're right on the PTO input shaft splines if the unit has high hours and lots of PTO time. A double split would be required to replace the
shaft and drive hub.

Minor rattling in the clutch/transmission area at idle is once again somewhat normal due to 4-cylinder engine harmonics. However, excessive
rattle could be clutch disc damper springs going out.
 
(quoted from post at 13:09:57 08/16/17) I disagree with your comments about life expectancy on the Dual Power. In a 5600, it will last about as long as any DP could - it certainly
is not being stretched to the limits of capacity like say on a 9700.

You're right on the PTO input shaft splines if the unit has high hours and lots of PTO time. A double split would be required to replace the
shaft and drive hub.

Minor rattling in the clutch/transmission area at idle is once again somewhat normal due to 4-cylinder engine harmonics. However, excessive
rattle could be clutch disc damper springs going out.

Good comments..

I see dual power problems a lot more than I would like. On tractors from 3000 hours to 6000 hours, and for most folks the ability to fix it on a cab tractor does not exist for the average user. And as said earlier, its not unique to the x600 series..

Most folks want a tractor that will run 10000 hours and no major problems.. well that is unrealistic but how bout 3000 hours or 5000 hours. But certain features are deal breakers for a lot of buyers. As in some models, TA is a deal breaker, sos transmissions make a tractor very difficult to sell.. Yes I have lot of experience with sos tractors sitting right beside identical tractors for sale. The manual tranny tractors sell in 2 to 6 weeks average in season. The sos tractors sell in 1 to 3 years, and at a lower price, and ALWAYS to a newbie. 4 speed trannys take much longer to sell, and at a lower price(1965 and newer).


When I am out at the auctions looking for new inventory, dual power failure is the number one problem of "whats for sale out there" that is on a other wise "running" tractor. Every 8000 series has a bad 3/7 gear. I dont advocate for or against, just my observations of the inventory that works it way down to us from up north. Probably 30 percent of dual power tractors have been converted and removed. That actually makes them a better seller.

And one could say, it does not go to market if its good, only when its bad. So that probably taints what I see. With that being said... Good ford tractors being coming more and more hard to find going forward... where does one go..

The high quality first, that then produced the high quantity of fords, that then produce the high quantity of aftermarket parts....... is unique to the 1965-1996 series of fords. That does not exist elsewhere.

With all the new stuff being hydro drive,, do you expect to see 6000 hour to 10000 hour tractors out there with out major repairs every 3 years. Who can afford to shell out 5k for a tranny repair every couple of years. Every tc- series nh tractor out there has a hydro problem that I see. I finally quit looking at them. Most are from rental companies and yes they were abused. Cant even count the kubotas and other hydros at auction and all have hydro tranny problems at low hours and even a surprising amount of engine problem and all are at 2000 hours or less. Most are 1200 to 1700 hours. Now thats pretty scary.

As to the rattle at an idle.. is it pilot shaft/bearing, pto shaft/ spline wear, pressure plate springs/arms, throwout bearing or even release arm? I know if you push the clutch pedal down, it goes away. It does not feel like the throwout bearing as you can still hear it rattle when you just push it up into the pressure plate... iirc.
 
I worked for a FNH dealer for 15 years, and rarely saw a major DP failure, and certainly never converted one over to an 8-speed. Who in their
right mind would ever want to give up a two-speed powershift? The failures we did see could usually be attributed to hydraulic pump issues
and/or oil contamination. Also, when the TWx5 series first came out in 1983, there was a rash of failures because Ford decided to reduce the
number of clutch plates for fuel efficiency reasons. That backfired on them real fast.

All in all, IMHO, the Ford DualPower is a robust unit, and adds greatly to the value of a machine. It is not to be compared to the much
maligned International Torque Amplifier, which has a pretty poor reputation from what I understand.

As I said in my last post, rattle in the clutch area is usually worn clutch disc damper springs.
 
I've got to disagree a bit on the dual power as well... I had mine open last year when I changed the PTO shaft... and even at 8550 hours it
still looked like very little wear. Much to the point I just put the cover back on and buttoned it up. I have had one other one apart that
was exploded a few times, which I attribute to the owner... and I know of one other that's been blown apart on a 7710 that's probably
pushing 120-130 and got a lot of rough use. The Deere guys around here seem to have more grief with the Hi-Lo than the Fords ever did...
and the MF/IH pool... doesn't even need discussion...

I'd also wonder a bit about the rod bearings on this one. It would worry me a bit that someone went that far and didn't change the mains...
or do the rest of it... unless it's just someone that belongs to the 'lets change the rods because every IH I ever had needed rods at 5k
hours' club

Rod
 

Nice tractor, I like the 16.9-34 rear tires, most had 18.4-30 or 15.5-38 rears, their saying 65% thread, I'm calling it less than 50%.
I see dual hydraulic remotes, another bonus option, I've had to add dual remotes to 2 of my tractors that had single remotes in order to operate newer hay equipment, used dual remote valves are hard to find, new ones cost over a grand.
In my area Ford tractors with Dual Power are more preferred and adds value to the tractor. My 6610 has Dual Power which give me 4-5 gears to chose from when baling depending on hay and ground conditions. I went to a recent auction planing to purchase a 7710 but walked away when I found it didn't have Dual Power.

My MIL has a 5600 with 6900 hours, it has a little blow by but not enough to cause concern. It has a minor leak in the steering sector which is common for that style steering, but it's not bad enough to warrant fixing.
I have a older 5000 with the 233 engine with 6500 hours, I need to replace the counter balancer bearings but other wise it a good tractor.
I do like the added torque the 256 engine was that came on later 5000's and 6600's

If that tractor was located in my area I'd be trying to trade for it.
 
we live in central wis. lots of fords around here I did not realize that the dual power was like that was considering putting in our 5600 but will probably just eventually put 34 inch tires on just looking for a little more speed in 6th gear. I always thought the dual power was less trouble than the ih ta.s.
 

I agree with Bern and Rod on the Dual Power. They are bullet proof if you keep your oil clean. The discs last forever. The problem is seals going out from dirty oil.
 
(quoted from post at 21:10:08 08/16/17) we live in central wis. lots of fords around here I did not realize that the dual power was like that was considering putting in our 5600 but will probably just eventually put 34 inch tires on just looking for a little more speed in 6th gear. I always thought the dual power was less trouble than the ih ta.s.

Not sure what you do with the tractor but 34's won't speed it up much, my MIL's 5600 has 15.5-38's and it only a little faster in 6th over my 4000 on 16.9-30's.
Dual Power won't speed you up in 6th high DP but it will slow you down to 9 mph in 7th low DP from the normal 12 mph in 7th standard or 7th high DP which makes 7th more usable.
 
18.4-34's are a lot more tire than the 15.5-38... which are incidentally fairly close to the 16.9-30. On 34's the tractor will run a lot
faster unless the transmission output ratio was adjusted for the larger tires...

Rod
 

I was thinking 16.9-34's on a 5600.
15.5-38 and 16.9-34 are nearly same height and only 1 inch taller than 18.4-30, but 4 inches taller than 16.9-30.
 
I hope your purchase works out for you I also hope the 52 hp dyno was a typo error on your part 5600 should at least dynoed 65 hp 52 hp was what a 4600 had All ford when new would dynoe just a little more than advertised hp Where did they get the 540 rpm from dynoe readout or by tractor rpm gauge most fords obtain 540 pto at 1950 Rpms If they were not turning that you may have not got a true read out which I hope is true whatever procedure deere dealer went by correct or incorrect 52 hp is very low for 5600 Can't believe these other ford gurus didn't catch that in your second post
 

I caught the 52 hp part but after checking Tractor Data figures I decided not to press the issue.
Ford claimed the 5600 to have 65 hp, Nebraska test showed 60 PTO hp at rated engine speed (2100 rpm), 540 PTO speed shows the tractor making 56 hp.
Being down 4 hp with 6300 hours on the clock isn't to bad, also not sure when they dynoed if they went by tractors tack or one on the dyno.
This past year I checked PTO speed on my MIL's 6900 hour 5600 as it was acting a little under powered pulling the mower, found the tach was off nearly 300 rpm and the PTO was only turning 440 rpm. Increased rpm's until PTO was at 540 and noted the tach's reading of 2100, back in the field with tach at 2100 (actual 540 PTO spd) an it pulled the mower with ease.
 
65 would have been the engine power, not PTO. I can't remember if PTO was 58 or 60 at 2100. Either way, at 1900 (540) it would be a good deal
slacker since those engine only made 12-14% rise. 52 at 540 doesn't sound too far out to me, although it probably is a bit tired. Running the
valves and replacing the air filters might perk it up...

Rod
 

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