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1957 600 lost hydraulics prime (where to add fluid?)

C

corvetttteguy

Member
New acquired 600 with motor disassembled.
It is put together now, lost fluid in
piston Vickers pump. Where do I add
fluid so pump will prime?
And do I put touch control up or down?
What RPM?

Thanks
 

large round plug under seat, dipstick on left side by PTO control.
touch control doesn't matter for priming. Engine cranking to low idle for priming.
 

I have been running on and off and I know there is a large
air gap between the pump and the low pressure
return pipe. How will the pistons pull up the fluid
in order to compress the oil? There is a large
set screw on the top side of the pump that
is located above the return side.
I am not sure if I can remove the screw and
fill the pump with oil. Or is it possible
that just cracking the screw while running will bleed
the air out?

What do you recommend?
[/img]
 
Among the several things that concern me about your post is this: "...and I know there is a large
air gap between the pump and the low pressure
return pipe. " The "low pressure return pipe" is the pump suction line & if it is able to suck air, it isn't going to work.
 
Welcome to the Ford Board.
You bought the tractor now buy the repair
manual for it.
It will explain how to bleed the pump, where
to put the oil in, how much oil and what
kind.
It will also give you answers to about a
gazillion other questions you may have about
repairing your tractor. At about $30 with
shipping it's money well spent.
Click here
 
Before installing the pump I filled both
the pressure and return tubes with fluid
right up to the top connection. Since the
pump is inverted and mounted on the side of the
engine you can't add oil to the pump.
Therefore, there is an air gap that the
pump must overcome
be4gore suction is established.
 
I have a hard copy I&T Shop Manual FO-20
I bought from YT years ago when I used to
be "corvettteguy" .[i:c41ee6bdbc] A login no longer working.
[/i:c41ee6bdbc]
While it shows my pump, it has no mention of
priming or bleeding in its 144 pages.
That is why I ask.

new corvetttteguy 8)
 
(quoted from post at 07:03:18 07/27/17) I have a hard copy I&T Shop Manual FO-20
I bought from YT years ago when I used to
be "corvettteguy" .[i:b0661db245] A login no longer working.
[/i:b0661db245]
While it shows my pump, it has no mention of
priming or bleeding in its 144 pages.
That is why I ask.

new corvetttteguy 8)
Click to expand...
s the body of your pump round or more rectangular?
 
(quoted from post at 08:46:33 07/27/17) It is a 1957 as shown in the manual
round with 2 set screws on the right top.
A three bolt manifold.
Click to expand...
he "set screws" as you call them are pipe plugs. They are inlet & outlet ports & you can easily see which is which as they are directly above the suction & outlet pipe connections. Normally, the outlet plug is removed & engine run at idle until bubble free oil cones out & the plug replaced. Some find it helpful in priming to apply compressed air to dipstick opening to force oil up & into pump inlet.
 
Since it looks like the allen wrench hole is going
to strip out before it will loosen I think
I will pressurize the reservoir.
 
Interesting, If I pressurize the hydraulics reservoir and the
motor is idling the the lift goes up slowly. If I
increase RPM to 1200 or so it goes up faster.
When I shut off the motor the lift stays up. The arms
stays up without leak down even if I try to force it down.

Without the pressure assist the lift does not go up,
So I am not sure if the pump is actually working.

I am thinking I have to remove pump and try
running it with a drill and see if it pulls. If it does
then I will need to keep the prime and reinstall
the pump and hope for the best.
 
(quoted from post at 17:04:16 07/27/17) Interesting, If I pressurize the hydraulics reservoir and the
motor is idling the the lift goes up slowly. If I
increase RPM to 1200 or so it goes up faster.
When I shut off the motor the lift stays up. The arms
stays up without leak down even if I try to force it down.

Without the pressure assist the lift does not go up,
So I am not sure if the pump is actually working.

I am thinking I have to remove pump and try
running it with a drill and see if it pulls. If it does
then I will need to keep the prime and reinstall
the pump and hope for the best.
Click to expand...
have two reasons to think that the pump is doing some pumping, 1) it raises faster with increasing engine rpm, 2) unless you were able to pressurize the hyd compartment with more than the check valve pressure of 115#, then it couldn't be raising on air pressure alone (can't get past check valve to ram). I expect that pump seals are bad enough that it cannot develop suction of oil, but rather just sucks air, until you force oil into it with air pressure in reservoir. It may not even be possible to force fluid thru the pump (not running) with just compressed air, as you would need to overcome the spring/ball valves on intake & exhaust.
 

It makes sense.
I will have to remove the pump for the next step.

I have an earlier Vickers vane pump and
4 bolt manifold. Would it be worth wild to
install it on the 600? I can run some oil
through the pump while spinning the gear
to see if working.

It would also free up access to the oil pressure sender which
is blocked by the piston pump.

You have been a great help.
 
(quoted from post at 20:23:35 07/27/17)
It makes sense.
I will have to remove the pump for the next step.

I have an earlier Vickers vane pump and
4 bolt manifold. Would it be worth wild to
install it on the 600? I can run some oil
through the pump while spinning the gear
to see if working.

It would also free up access to the oil pressure sender which
is blocked by the piston pump.

You have been a great help.
Click to expand...
he general direction is to replace the vane with the piston, probably due to parts availability to re-build.
 
That is the direction of choice. However,
availability of a free pump might change the equation.

I will look at the 30 minute YouTube video
of someone rebuilding a piston pump like mine.
The rebuild shows all the errors made by a
previous rebuild like putting the wobble
washer on the wrong side.
Maybe I'll learn a lot.
 
'shrug'....pumps wear out or need rebuilding...sooner or later.
Before I pulled it, I'd check the o-rings on the manifold, and for sure get that bleed plug out....gotta bleed it.
It went in, it'll come out.
I have a similar problem piston pump on the rebuild bench right now. had to remove the bleed plug and prime it every time I used the tractor.....till it failed completely...right after spending half a day hanging a one-arm loader on...dang tractors.

If you have a vane pump...that works...and are [i:3ec0443ea6]sure[/i:3ec0443ea6] you have the correct manifold...go for it. Use it till it dies, then put your rebuilt piston pump back on.
I have a couple tractors with vane pumps, work fine, very strong.
I actually prefer them if they work, cuz I like that flow control knob/lever.

If you go vane, and have trouble with the initial prime, post back.
Couple different ways to prime a vane pump.
 
I have been starting and running the 600 on and off
for several weeks. Hunting down a head gasket vacuum
leak, a exhaust manifold gasket exhaust
leak, and a leaking radiator leak. And today I decided to lower the 3 point to see
how much it dropped in 3 weeks (not much).

While it was idling I happened to set the touch lever to UP
and to my great surprise I WENT UP LIKE 100%, at idle.

So my piston pump is working.

I can ask why, but i'll just take a WIN.

A little RED permitex on the side of the head
gasket and the idle smoothed out nicely. A new
radiator to put on today, and maybe in a
while a new exhaust gasket and I might be able
to test drive the 600 with 172 engine with my 5 ft hog.

I'm glad you guys are here to give me confidence.

George

:D
 
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