I've come to hate my NAA's carriage bolts

moran

Member
Wanting to replace both a terminally dysfunctional radiator and a rust infested fuel tank on my NAA, I first had to remove its Wagner WM4 loader. This involved removing the nuts on the four carriage bolts holding at the rear axle which were theoretically prevented from turning by the square holes in the axle casting.The all spun of course despite all my efforts including Vise-Grips attempts, cutting screwdriver slots in the heads, grinding flats on the heads, heat, etc. I eventually was able to defeat them but it took so long and involved so many combinations of methods I can't recall what actually worked. Thinking my struggle was over I removed the radiator whose carriage bolt square holes miraculously held on to their bolts but am now struggling with the single forward bolt on the fuel tank. It's particularly tough to get any tool on the round head or trying to help the retaining slot perform it's job of keeping it from spinning. I would welcome any advice on both general methods for keeping these bolts from turning when the square hole or slot fails or the particular problem of that single forward bolt on the fuel tank.
 
On most of those bolts I would have used a hot wrench as in torch. Or a nut cracker tool. BTDT to many times over the years and yep rust like to melt away the square area of them so they then in turn spin on you which makes then not so fun to remove. I have also used an air die grinder with a cut off wheel or an angle grinder to remove the nuts and blots
 
Just a word of warning... if you buy an imported (china) replacement radiator, be ready for a whole lot more frustration. They don't fit worth a darn out of the box. I spent hours getting one to fit properly in a Jubilee for a guy. Only good part of the deal was I got to keep the repairable one he was replacing. If at all possible, get your old one fixed/recored.
 
I'm like Old, don't spend allot of time messing with rusted bolts before I grab my cutting torch. Bolts are cheap and if you are careful you can cut the nut/bolt off without messing up what you need to save.
 
I cut the bolts with a die grinder and a whiz wheel.

I also keep new fender bolts on hand and anti sieze the threads upon installation.

Dean
 
(quoted from post at 10:06:23 06/26/17) I cut the bolts with a die grinder and a whiz wheel.

I also keep new fender bolts on hand and anti sieze the threads upon installation.

Dean

I try to use a cut off wheel when I can but more often than not don't have enough room to get to the bolt. Torch always works.

Never used a nut cracker, might be another option but not sure how well it work on a #8 nut.
 
Ya a nut breaker has to be used on a grade 2 or not likely to do much other then break the the nut breaker
 
The front mounting on the fuel should be slotted. Take the back two bolts out and shove the tank back off the carriage bolt.
 
Man, i feel for you and know your pain, carriage bolts, set screws, rivets, and keyways/keys are all scourges of the fastener world...
 
You're absolutely right. I knew it should slide off but kept pushing the wrong way - forward instead of rearward. It came right off except for one of the bolts on the shield which I promptly snapped off with my socket wrench. No matter - thank very much. Hopefully mu image will be attached or accessible. Using a torch that close to a fuel tank with just an explosive quantity left in it didn't seem too smart.
Carriage Bolt
 
WayneIA had the solution as the bolt will slide out of the slot if you shove the tank rearward. I knew it should slide out but was pushing it stupidly forward instead. Well it's off now but as you can see from the linked photo there isn't much room to grind and using a torch on the tank with still a little gas in it didn't seem advisable. the openinG shown in the photo is only 1" X 1/2". Not much room for any tool or grinder.
Carriage Bolt
 
On a gas tank one should never use a torch but if you have to it needs to be as full as you can get it. An empty tank will explode but a full one will only burn a little bit at a time since it is the vapors that burn not the liquid. But either way don;t use a torch period unless your 1000% sure you know what your doing. Use bolt cutters or other such thing that will not cause sparks because gas and spark or gas an flames with a tank that is not empty do not mix well and that is a good way to end up DEAD.
 
sorry for your troubles
but when you put it back together, coat the bolts good with anti seize and maybe if there is every a next time the bolts will come apart better.
 
WayneIA had the solution as the bolt will slide out of the slot if you shove the tank rearward. I knew it should slide out but was pushing it stupidly forward instead. Well it's off now but as you can see from the linked photo there isn't much room to grind and using a torch on the tank with still a little gas in it didn't seem advisable. the openinG shown in the photo is only 1" X 1/2". Not much room for any tool or grinder.
Carriage Bolt
 
(quoted from post at 18:25:26 06/26/17) WayneIA had the solution as the bolt will slide out of the slot if you shove the tank rearward. I knew it should slide out but was pushing it stupidly forward instead. Well it's off now but as you can see from the linked photo there isn't much room to grind and using a torch on the tank with still a little gas in it didn't seem advisable. the openinG shown in the photo is only 1" X 1/2". Not much room for any tool or grinder.
Carriage Bolt

The first thing on your list should be a rust-dissolving penetrant that really works and works fast. Any exposed threads beyond the nut should be cleaned and oil applied there. there was hardly any square on the shanks of all the plow bolts on my cultivator sweeps but with this fluid, off they came.

this rectangular telescopic shaft for my rotary cutter, was bone dry with no grease or [b:bd41632ef9]anything[/b:bd41632ef9] on it, but heavily rusted. I just kept soaking it and sliding it in and out of the tube.

The color that looks like black is NOT black!
It is super dark brown rust which always comes off first then at the end, light brown.shaft.

Amsoil MP that I have been using since 1976 and have never found anything to equal it.
49991.jpg
 
That's quite a testimonial. I've had similar results with a product called "Kroil". As I've commented already I've managed to get the tank off based on WayneIA's correcting the direction I was pushing.
 

Oh yeah!
Someone on the N forum mentioned it to me too.
I'll have to try it. . . Not Canadian I don't think so it means freight on one can just to try it.
I'll gladly do a side by side. :D

Put hey, MP leaves an incredibly stable after oil when the rust cutting over. . . and really keeps rust from happening again, but here's the master stroke . . .

MP never gets tacky from oxidation, so it doesn't build up and become counter productive.

and protecting your steel all the while -- MP=Metal Protector.

this stuff will dissolve the gum left by WD 40 and leave a stable protecting dry-ish film in its place. And on carb linkage, that's a real plus to have a stable rust inhibiting oil . . . cause the engine heat accelerates oxidation of an unstable oil.
this is the 7 years out in the weather Coulter collar from my Ford 110 single bottom. :)
49992.jpg
 

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