6610 PTO/Hyd Driveshaft

Hurst

Member
I was teddering with my 6610 the other day and when I turned a corner and had a little driveline chatter, I heard a pop, and the PTO just
stopped and the tractor quit pulling. It has Dual Power with an 8x2 crashbox transmission, so I am guessing I lost the splines on my
PTO/Hydraulic shaft. Is there a way to check this before splitting? It has the aux hydraulic pump on the cam gear, so the hydraulic remotes
and 3pt still operate, but anything that requires low pressure hyd. is not working, and the last clutch I put in a few years ago, the splines
were shiny and had some wear on both the hub and shaft, so that is why I am pretty sure this is the problem. I have the service manual and
am going to start reading through it. I know it requires a double split, one at the engine to replace the splined hub and one at the
transmission to pull the PTO shaft out from the rear. Should I just go with the split at the engine and check there? It's an open station,
so once I get the stands setup, it's only about a 4 hour job.

Hurst
 
Just an update. Got the tractor split and the splines in the hub and on the shaft are all in tract. Spinning the shaft by hand, nothing feels out of place and no excessive play. I guess I'll go ahead and replace the leaking crank seal and install a wear sleeve on the crank before it kills my clutch while I'm here. Any ideas?

Hurst
 
One more update. I pulled the pump and the supply line to the pto valve looked to have been popped out a little. The oring was still on the line, but the ears in the clip that are there to hold it up look like they have bent flat or worn off. Looks like I'll need an updated clip and new o ring.

On a side note, my pilot bearing is pretty rough and the splines in the pto hub (it has the 20 spline hub) are worn a good bit. The shaft looks like it has over half the thickness of the splines still. Is it wise to just replace the hub. It would save me pressing out the pilot bearing as a plus.

Hurst
 
Working 3pt tells me the rear pump is turning. Sorry I didn't see this sooner. 3pt is supplied by the rear pump only
 
No worries, probably a good thing I split it, because the pilot bearing is starting to lock up, so if I didn't take it apart, I might be looking at a new input shaft. Also, the rear main seal is starting to leak pretty badly, so I'll go ahead and fix it and sleeve the crankshaft. Would it be wise to go ahead and replace the flywheel hub only since the splines are wearing? The shaft looks pretty decent, just a little wear on the splines, but the hub splines are getting pretty sharp.

Hurst
 
I've seen situations where the splines are stripped, and yet the splines are still grabbing just barely, and the pump is turning just enough to lift an empty 3-point hitch. If I suspect that, I'll back the tractor up to a truck bumper or something similar and make sure it can lift some substantial weight.
 
Well, if the hitch is really, fully, working then the shaft is turning. What I would do is pull the main system pump after having run a low pressure system test first. However, I suspect what you will find is a broken shaft between the pump sections such that the main pump is working and the low pressure rear section is not. While you're in there you can bar over the drive shaft and see if it turns... or if it will turn the engine. If it turns the engine you know the splines are good...

Rod
 
I went through a jigsaw puzzle saga 6-7 years ago on a 5610 where the owner split it and dessicated the dual power in one of these scenarios. We got a used DP unit, resealed THAT, put it all back together... and it still wouldn't move. Turned out the pump was buggered..... 3 grand later, it worked. lol

Rod
 
Yes! Replace the hub. For all it costs, it may forestall the shaft wear for a while. And you're already in there.

Rod
 
Replacing the hub only is a bit of a BandAid approach, but it will keep things turning if the shaft splines are decent. You would not be the first.......
In a perfect world.. wait. Nobody is perfect.
 
Has anyone used an aftermarket hub? I can get one of those 20 spline hubs for approximately $40, where the NH part lists for $300+. If it will last the life of a clutch and not kill my shaft, I can't see how it wouldn't be better to just replace it every clutch job at that price (save the labor of popping out the pilot bearing too) and use the aftermarket part each time. I'm going on the assumption that it is a little softer steel than the OEM part, which might not be the worst thing in the world if it means the hub wears more instead of the shaft. Just wondering if anyone has used one or if NH's 8x markup is really justified.

Hurst
 
I can't remember if I used the A&I part or the NH part. Make sure you're comparing apples to apples. I can't remember if there are two different hubs or not but there ARE two different shafts.
Personally, in your situation I'd buy the 40 dollar one as long as it fits. Don't think you're going to preserve that shaft forever by changing the hub. This is, much like Rick suggested.... a stop gap measure to perhaps forestall the inevitable. I've just observed on mine that generally there is more wear on the hub than the shaft... so you might buy some time. However, if the shaft is really bad... just do the second split and change it now. If it's an open station tractor that is not a horrible job. For what it's worth I'd say that neither the aftermarket hub or the NH hub is particularly hard... the shaft is hard. The hub is the sacrifice part... NH has one of the most arbitrary
pricing schemes I've ever seen, so don't necessarily equate price and quality. A lot of stuff they sell is the same china junk in a red/gray box.

Rod
 
Rod, Once again you have proven correct! I went to do my last runover on the tractor with my parts list and this post kept haunting me, so I went over to the pump and turned it over by hand, slowly, quickly, back and forth, slowly then quickly, etc, and something just felt weird. It was normal reistance you'd expect from a hydraulic pump turning with fluid inside, then all of a sudden it would get light, then it would go back to normal. I took the rear cover off, and held the rear gear while turning the drive gear on the outside of the pump, and sure enough, the rear part was slipping. I took apart the front plate and broke the pump apart to find a stripped shaft between the driven gear in the main part and the drive gear on the rear section. I looked at the parts from NH, and just the 2 gears and shaft (the other gear's internal splines are a little questionable) come to around $350 to $400 dollars! Then add another 50 or more for the o ring seals and the shaft seals, you're almost to the price of a NH reman! I've had good luck out of the aftermarket "economy" pump on my 7610. It's going on 10 years old and no problems. I know the whole getting what you pay for, but I'm starting to see more and more, most of what you're getting is a brand name on the box and the quality is not any better than the no-name parts, especially when the tractor only sees 2-300 hours a year.

Hurst
 
Yeah, compared to the hub, the shaft looks brand new. You can tell where the splines engage, but they are still full height, just a little wear on the sides. The hub splines, however, are worn past their full width where they are starting to get shorter, if that makes any sense. If we were talking like tires or brakes, I'd say the hub is around 20% and the shaft probably 60-70%.

Hurst
 
I dont know how to start a new thread but HELP! 800 Ford tractor power steering worked fine until I changed the seals upper and lower, now i have a rattling sound and hard steering. Any help would be appreciated. I've got a manual and i've done this before, scratching my head.
 

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