Ford 4000 select o speed PTO seal

Not sure what's going on here... need to replace PTO seal in
my 4000 4 cylinder and can't get the shaft out. Took out the 4
housing bolts and got it loose but will not pull out. Tried to pry
on it and nothing. I can grab the pto and pul it back about an
inch then stops as if something is holding it in place. Is there
something different with the select o speed I'm missing here?
Thanks

Jeff
 
It may have, did not check but since I can move the pto back about an inch with the housing still flush on the rear end, I would say there's some exessive play. Tractor had been sitting awhile and saw the puddle under rear end. Went to put fluid in the rear end and leaked out pretty quick through the pto seal. When you pull the pto back and it stops, it doesn't sound like it's hitting the back of the pto housing. Sounds like something is grabbing it from inside the rear end. Would the pto being engaged stop the shaft from coming out?
 
if it really has an inch of thrust play, it could mean the back of the shaft has peened against whatever is behind it, and mushroomed larger in diameter.
 
Would the pto being engaged stop the shaft from coming out?

It shouldn't. All the PTO handle does is control a hydraulic valve, and the hydraulic flow from that valve controls whether the PTO clutch pack is engaged or not and when the engine is off the pump isn't running so there's no flow or pressure in the hydraulic circuit to cause the PTO clutch to engage.

The PTO shaft that you're trying to remove is actually the "rear" PTO shaft. There is a front PTO shaft that is driven by the clutch pack and a splined collar connects the front and rear PTO shafts, so the rear PTO shaft should just slide straight out of the splined collar unless there is something wrong.

If there is as much end play as you say and you have been using a heavy implement like a brush hog the chances are good that the rear PTO shaft was driven forward by the implement (probably multiple times) and the end of the two shafts inside the collar probably mushroomed from the impact(s).
 
Part that doesn't make sense is the pto has play but the housing with the 4 bolts won't budge out at all. It's loose and can spin side to side but not out of the rear end. You would figure if the back of the shaft was mushroomed out, the pto and housing would only move so far then stop.
 
Tractor was only used to rake hay years ago. Was my
grandfather's tractor then my grand mother had just used it to
drive around the farm after he passed. She passed recently
and I bought it from the estate before it got auctioned. I can't
imagine anything was used on the tractor to mushroom the
back of the shaft out. I changed the seal on my 601 and other
4000 no problem years ago, had to fright the 601 a little
because it was a little distorted but eventually came. I just
wonder if there's something different with the select o speed.
As I told soundguy, the shaft has play and I got the housing
with the four bolts loose enough to spin side to side but won't
come out. Shouldn't the housing move out with the shaft too
and stop after the inch of play?
 
I'm not a SOS guy, so that's as far as my help goes, sorry.

I have seen some tractors that swapped a pto stub with a split ring removal, but it wasn't a ford or SOS, so like i said.. Good luck! ;)
 

The SOS is different! It is much simpler since it does not have a PTO clutch in the center housing. All the rear PTO shaft on an SOS does is slip into the coupler sleeve.

There are no keepers that could explain your scenario. Something is swedged, gummed or otherwise affected adversely in your particular tractor. If worse comes to worst, remove the round inspection cover and look inside with lights. Use mirrors if need be. If you still can't see it, remove the lift cover.
 
I had a 3000 with a 4 sp that I parted out.
Had a buyer for the trans. When I went to split the trans from the rear end I could not get the pto shaft out. It would slide out about 3/4" but would not come out with the medium amount of force I applied. Not wanting to break anything, I pulled the the top cover and cut the pto shaft in half. When I had it split I found that as said below the pto output shaft from the trans and the pto shaft had been slightly mushroomed/burred on the ends and would not slip out of the sliding coupler. I put a pinch bar on it and pulled it off the the output shaft fairly easily.
Had I known what the problem was I would have used more force to pull the shaft. I assume the burring was caused by the pto shaft getting jammed inwards by a too-long drive shaft on an implement.
I deburred the output shaft and sold the trans.
 
Everyone seems to point at this problem, I will take the plate off this weekend and see if the shaft has been mashed up. Thanks
 
Well as for an update...still no progress. Haven't had time to
work on it much but yes the select o speed is much different
upon looking. Probably the first independent pto ford put out, I
would imagine. Taking off the round inspection plate doesn't
help, it's still independent from the shaft that is in the back of
the housing. All that you can see is the sleeve to slid back to
disengage the transmission from rear end. There is really no
way to look in there to see what's going on. Not even splitting
the tractor will help.
 
If it's the square plate around the shaft that's not moving, have you tried getting a pry bar behind it? If that doesn't work, you may need to pull the left axle off of the center housing to see what's going on, as the back side of that plate is in the differential housing, not the hydraulic sump.
 
(quoted from post at 12:53:19 05/07/17) There is really no
way to look in there to see what's going on. Not even splitting
the tractor will help.

Get a big wrecking bar with a point. Stick it through the opening and hook it in front of the coupling. Bump it a few times. I bet you'll separate the shafts.

There is a way to "see it" but not sure that'll help you much. However, if you really want to view the coupling externally, remove the hydraulic deck from the top of the center housing.
 
I can slide that coupling behind the round inspection plate with
my hands but that won't release the pto shaft. The shaft that
goes into the rear differential from the hydraulic hub must gear
down to the pto output shaft.
 
Yeah, I have tried to pry on it and it won't budge. The housing
will spin side to side like it's loose but will not pull out. I've
rigged up several pullers for the pto and let's say the force of a
skidsteer tugging on it won't do anything. Seems like it maybe
moved a TINY bit out but that's it. Not even enough to really
notice. I had a feeling pulling the axle housing was the only
was the only way to really see it but was hoping not. Thanks
for the heads up, looks like that's my only option moving
forward.
 
(quoted from post at 19:17:23 05/08/17) I can slide that coupling behind the round inspection plate with
my hands but that won't release the pto shaft. The shaft that
goes into the rear differential from the hydraulic hub must gear
down to the pto output shaft.

Nope! The shaft you see through the round inspection cover is the same shaft you see at the PTO sticking out the rear of the tractor. Your problem has to be either at the coupler you can see in the hydraulic section or at the casting that bolts with 4 bolts to the rear of the differential.
 
Just checked again, definitely not the same shaft. Select o
speeds are independent pto's so I can grab the pto, spin it and
the shaft inside the hydraulic hub does not move. I can also
see looking from the back of the tractor, the pto output shaft
sits about 6" below where that shaft should be inside the
hydraulic hub. I think the pto output shaft in this tractor only
extends to the differential.
 
(quoted from post at 20:46:24 05/08/17) Just checked again, definitely not the same shaft. Select o
speeds are independent pto's so I can grab the pto, spin it and
the shaft inside the hydraulic hub does not move. I can also
see looking from the back of the tractor, the pto output shaft
sits about 6" below where that shaft should be inside the
hydraulic hub. I think the pto output shaft in this tractor only
extends to the differential.
Sorry, but I'm done with this thread. I've said all I can say and you don't accept it. Good luck figuring things out the way you want them to be!
 
Yes you're correct if it's a manual transmission, it's one long
shaft that goes through the oil hub through the back of the
tractor. The shaft in my select o speed is different, there's 3
parts to the shaft. The pto output is independent from the
input shaft. Independent pto...it's different trust me, I have a
601 work master right beside the 4000 and am looking inside
the inspection covers.
 

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