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Ford 5000 complete restore getting close to finishing

D

dannyidp

Member
Hello all
First time uploading pics I hope it works. I have completely tore this tractor down The main shaft third first reverse second the counter shaft and all the bearings had to be replaced in the transmission new clutch pressure plate flywheel turned new brakes. Now I'm starting on the engine which has to be taken to the Machine Shop an bored. The engine had been bored 40 over so I have to put sleeves. My engine stand he's not heavy duty enough to hold the engine which is going to make it a pain to rebuild any suggestions on that.
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Some more updates the lift cylinder was rebuilt also with a new rock shaft new bushings the lift cylinder look good so it was lightly honed and new seals put on piston also had to get a new PTO clutch pack housing mine has a hairline crack which was probably not letting the PTO work properly I never used the tractor I bought the tractor pulled it into shop and started restoring. I was also wondering if any of you guys may have a used camshaft gear Or a ldle shaft gear in decent shape laying around please let me know I've got too much backlash.
 
That's a nice project.
Will be looking for updates.
I used to have quite a pile of those timing
gears but needed to get rid of some stuff so
they're all gone.
If it helps, the timing gears from a 3
cylinder engine should be the same.
Maybe someone here has some of those.
If no one does I have a friend in Louisiana
that should.
If you email me I could send you his phone
#.
 
With regards to no engine stand, here's what I would do:

Lay the bare engine block on the floor, upside down on a piece of clean cardboard. Install the cam and main bearings, crank, main caps, rear main seal, soft plugs, cam cover (don't forget the oil gallery plug), rear plate, and flywheel & clutch. Also install the lifters and cam, along with the front plate (don't forget the front oil gallery plug). Roll the engine onto one side and install lift hooks into two head bolt holes, offset somewhat to the rear for balance reasons. Pick up the assembly with your hoist and bolt it onto your trans and rear end assy. You now have a very solid engine stand to use in completing the assembly. Make sure you have a jack stand under the front of your transmission housing.
 
thanks Ultra dog and Bern I found some timing gears reasonable but I appreciate you offering. Thanks bern for those tips that is exactly what I was considering and that should work great. I haven't got it completely apart yet I have built several engines but only a handful of diesels I'm not sure about the oil Gallery plug I haven't got that far yet.
I've got a decision to make on the balance shafts there is supposed to be 1 to 9 thousands backlash between the crank and balance gear I have 15 thousands.But the backlash between the two gears is within tolerance I'm having a hard time finding gears. I'm thinking about going with that just not sure. Can anyone here recommend a good source for engine rebuild kits thanks
 
Consider carefully filing the support pads on the balancer to get your backlash within specs - I'd file the side without the gasket. This assumes the gear on your crank is not worn.

Why Ford did not shim that thing puzzles me.
 
(quoted from post at 10:58:23 04/10/17) Consider carefully filing the support pads on the balancer to get your backlash within specs - I'd file the side without the gasket. This assumes the gear on your crank is not worn.

Why Ford did not shim that thing puzzles me.
Click to expand...

Bern that's a great idea probably set it up on the milling machine. Since the two balance shaft gears are in specs I am thinking the crank gear is Worn. The crank is 10 10 and in great shape would hate to have to replace the crank because the gear for the balancer shaft is worn. Hey I don't understand a lot of things ford did.
 
What I meant in my last post is that I would not file or mill the mounting surface of the balancer down to compensate for a crank gear that is visibly worn. If the teeth are pitted and/or flaking, it won't be long for this world regardless of whether or not you get the backlash in spec.

It should be noted that Ford made the teeth on both the crank and the balancer wider on later engines. They would not have done that if they weren't having problems with failures. Translation: Check the teeth on your crank closely, as if you were a dentist.
 
(quoted from post at 03:14:37 04/11/17) What I meant in my last post is that I would not file or mill the mounting surface of the balancer down to compensate for a crank gear that is visibly worn. If the teeth are pitted and/or flaking, it won't be long for this world regardless of whether or not you get the backlash in spec.

It should be noted that Ford made the teeth on both the crank and the balancer wider on later engines. They would not have done that if they weren't having problems with failures. Translation: Check the teeth on your crank closely, as if you were a dentist.
Click to expand...


LOL Bern I totally understand that. I took a couple of thousands off and got it down to 17 thousands which is way too much. I have checked the crank gear it is definitely Worn there is no pitting or chips but it does have some wear. More than likely it is the original crank in the engine it's a 10 10 crank and the lobes are in perfect condition I just can't justify buying a new crank because of the balance shafts having too much backlash.

I think the balance shaft gears maybe okay they show wear two but the backlash between the two gear are intolerance. The balance shaft assembly cost as much as a crankshaft. Thanks for you guys help
 
Hey guys I have built a few engines but this is my first 256 diesel I got the block on the way to the Machine Shop for sleeves.
I have a question can you tell me where these eight locking tabs go? Also there's a big thick brass washer and this little 4 inch round pointy thing. I did not see any of this when the engine come apart. I'm guessing maybe the brass goes to the oil plug? Any suggestions from you engine gurus would be great. Thanks
47718.jpg
 

The locking tabs are for the exhaust manifold bolts.
There should be two 4" long pointy things, they go in the grooves in the sealing strips at the top of your pic that fit in the rear main cap. Those nails as I call them tighten the side seals in the main cap to help them seal.
 
(quoted from post at 05:35:07 04/13/17)
The locking tabs are for the exhaust manifold bolts.
There should be two 4" long pointy things, they go in the grooves in the sealing strips at the top of your pic that fit in the rear main cap. Those nails as I call them tighten the side seals in the main cap to help them seal.
Click to expand...

Thanks for chiming in destroke that's some good information because it didn't have the pointy things in there when I took it out. It looks like a couple more weeks before I put your power steering cylinder back to work LOL
 

Some of the side seals use the nails and some don't, depends on who's gaskets they are.

Glad your about to get it going, fixing to pull mine in the shop and replace the counter balancer bearings, their making quite a bit of noise.
 
Hey guys just a little update I'll have some pictures later I got my block back today and the flywheel. I told the Machine Shop not to take no more than 20 thousands off of the flywheel looks like they took .125 off the flywheel the flywheel is ruined. The book says not to take no more than 50 thousands so they refunded me for the grinding but did not offer to replace the flywheel. So looks like I've got to buy a flywheel now. They also decked the top of the engine block and I told them not to but thank God they only took 5 thousands off. I mic the Pistons before taking the block the Piston only had 10 thousands before hitting the head that was without the head gasket so I'm hoping I'm going to be okay there. I will keep you guys informed on things
 

My book says max .080 so .125 is a little much on the flywheel, but it may still be useable, did they say why they took so much off.

Just use the later thick head gasket and you'll be ok, it's a good idea to have .005-.010 taken off the head to make sure it's flat and doesn't have any depressions in it where the old head gasket sealing rings set.
 
Hey what happened on the flywheel was I told the shop owner that I only wanted 20 thousand Max and he did not convey the message to The Machinist. The reason they took so much I'm guessing it's because it was put it up on the outside edge and he just cut until everything was cleaned up. When he got done with it there wasn't even any dowel pin holes left he wiped them out. The problem I was having was finding a replacement flywheel mine has the M on the last digit. Everywhere I look was 400 plus but I finally found one for 150 thank God.





My book says max .080 so .125 is a little much on the flywheel, but it may still be useable, did they say why they took so much off.

Just use the later thick head gasket and you'll be ok, it's a good idea to have .005-.010 taken off the head to make sure it's flat and doesn't have any depressions in it where the old head gasket sealing rings set.[/quote]
 
Major problems on the Ford 5000 I got the other flywheel in this morning it looks like it's been cut too much also but I run into a big problem what do you see wrong with this flywheel there's only 6 bolts. I Mark the flywheel in such a way that I know it's my flywheel but my pressure plate has bolts and I can't even get my pressure plate 2 bolt up to this flywheel but I am 100% sure this is the flywheel that was on the tractor my old clutch will not even fit between the six boats what's going on guys
 

You need to go back to the machine shop and find out where your flywheel is, That flywheel shows where bolts have been tightened up against it, 5000's have a pto drive hub that goes against the flywheel and the bolts tighten up against the hub, the flywheel should also have 8 bolt holes for the pressure plate to bolt to.
That flywheel is of a 11" clutch with a 6 bolt pressure plate that was mainly used on 2-3000 models with transmission pto and 4000 models.
 
You are absolutely right destroked I am hoping someone will learn something from this. This is my flywheel it was the only flywheel the machine shop has had four a month I had special markings on the flywheel so that I know it's mine. It's been close to a year since I broke this thing down as you well no so I don't remember how many bolts was actually in the pressure plate.

But yes this flywheel was on this engine it has 6 bolts and somehow they had a 8 bolt 12 inch pressure plate bolted to it. After I purchased this tractor I drove this tractor around and it pulled fine. How I will never know how they had this pressure plate and 12 clutch installed. There's no way 2 line the clutch and pressure plate up on this particular flywheel how they done it is a phenomenon.

I have the correct flywheel on the way now I hope. Ford pulled this number for me and stated that this flywheel was a10-series. 1965 two Oct of 68 had a 12 inch clutch from Oct 68 through 71 was 11 inch clutch.





You need to go back to the machine shop and find out where your flywheel is, That flywheel shows where bolts have been tightened up against it, 5000's have a pto drive hub that goes against the flywheel and the bolts tighten up against the hub, the flywheel should also have 8 bolt holes for the pressure plate to bolt to.
That flywheel is of a 11" clutch with a 6 bolt pressure plate that was mainly used on 2-3000 models with transmission pto and 4000 models.[/quote]
 
A few more pictures just got the recondition rods back. I have almost got the engine back together but I still have not figured out where are the two copper washers and to O-rings go. The most fit a gas model or something. Any tips?
48019.jpg
48020.jpg
 
Hey guys I got the flywheel in today from t&h sales great guy to do business with. I also got my clutch and pressure plate in and I noticed it came with shims I have been putting clutch and pressure plates in for years in different applications and I have never seen shims with a pressure plate do I need to use the shims or is the Shims 4 a turned flywheel?
 

Put the shims in or the clutch won't release properly.
The gasket set has gaskets,orings and copper washers for gas and diesel engines so it's normal to have some leftovers.
I used to rebuild a lot of FE and FT series Ford engines, there was always one gasket in every set that I never did find where it went.
 

Okay thanks for the info Seems like by now they would have added the extra to the pressure plate so you wouldn't need shims oh well. I will take your word for it and put them in there. I had a feeling they didn't send them with the kit just to look at them. LOL
 
I got a lot done today I got the flywheel in clutch pressure plate release bearing the heavy duty spring on the release bearing was a pita.
48075.jpg
 
Hey guys I have everything painted now. I really could not find the paint I was looking for. I have used John Deere Industrial paint and really liked it dried to a touch in 5 minutes very hard and durable coating. Ford just does not offer such a paint. So I went with the Tallman's specialty enamel to me it is no different than oil base enamel you use on your house wood ect.
When I first started I thinned it with mineral spirits and added Japan drier to speed up the drying time I just don't like the way it does. So I changed up and thinned with acetone Japan drier and mixed with Automotive clear coat and was very surprised it's drying fast and has a great shine. More updates later.
 

Yea they've messed with the formulas over the years and the paint's not as good as it used to be.
I painted my 4000 in 2000 and although it's got scratches from farm use, it still looks good after a simple wash, I painted my 4000SU in 09 and the paint gets chalky after a while if I don't put a little wax on it.
Used the same part # paint and harder on both tractors.
 
Hey guy's I got a little more done this week. Hoping to get some more done this weekend. I still have to put brakes in him see what's going on with the rear end play the ring and pinion gear is tight. I have not fired it up yet I may make a video
48286.jpg
48288.jpg
 
I got the right side of the rear end took apart today to replace the brakes and to get to the PTO bearings while in there I found the spider gears in the cross shaft eat up so I'm going to have to find some gears for that also I've never came across a tractor as wore out as this one was lol

48313.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 05:34:27 04/29/17
I've never came across a tractor as wore out as this one was lol
Click to expand...

All the "Ford tough" marketing for trucks applies to this tractor and then some. We love our 5000: it's simple, rugged and adaptable to the job at hand. With 18.4-30 rear, 7.50-18 front, on 60 inch tread it's well suited to cramped yard work and open field work--truly a utility tractor. Only thing I'd change is the hydraulic gpm...oh and the Lucas electrics!
Karl f
 
(quoted from post at 05:34:27 04/29/17
I've never came across a tractor as wore out as this one was lol
Click to expand...

All the "Ford tough" marketing for trucks applies to this tractor and then some. We love our 5000: it's simple, rugged and adaptable to the job at hand. With 18.4-30 rear, 7.50-18 front, on 60 inch tread it's well suited to cramped yard work and open field work--truly a utility tractor. Only thing I'd change is the hydraulic gpm...oh and the Lucas electrics!
Karl f
 
(quoted from post at 08:27:02 04/30/17)
(quoted from post at 05:34:27 04/29/17
I've never came across a tractor as wore out as this one was lol
Click to expand...

All the "Ford tough" marketing for trucks applies to this tractor and then some. We love our 5000: it's simple, rugged and adaptable to the job at hand. With 18.4-30 rear, 7.50-18 front, on 60 inch tread it's well suited to cramped yard work and open field work--truly a utility tractor. Only thing I'd change is the hydraulic gpm...oh and the Lucas electrics!
Karl f
Click to expand...

I agree 100%! I personally have always been a chevy power guy. Ford tractors are without a dought tough although I prefer a deere. Since gmc is now government motor vehicles my next truck might well be a super duty lol.
 
Hey guys I was wondering if anybody here knows of a link or knows where the original warning labels go with a pic detail?
 
Hey guys
I was wondering does anyone have there generator light working with a alternator? How low my wires we're not hooked up so I'm going through trying to figure out all the wiring on the dash. On the generator light the hot wire is coming off of the ignition switch and the other side goes to ground which makes the light come on. So how would you wire it so that when the alternator start putting out let the light goes out?
 

The Lucas generator had two wires going to it, one is the battery feed (wide blade connector) and the other is the exciter wire (small blade connector).
The battery feed goes to the large post on the Delco alternator,
The red wire on the alt plug also goes to the large post.
The white wire connects to the exciter wire.
The regulator will need to be removed and the three larger wires need to be spliced together, the two smaller wires splice together to complete the exciter circuit, the ground wire (E) at the regulator is no used.
 
(quoted from post at 00:48:36 05/04/17)
The Lucas generator had two wires going to it, one is the battery feed (wide blade connector) and the other is the exciter wire (small blade connector).
The battery feed goes to the large post on the Delco alternator,
The red wire on the alt plug also goes to the large post.
The white wire connects to the exciter wire.
The regulator will need to be removed and the three larger wires need to be spliced together, the two smaller wires splice together to complete the exciter circuit, the ground wire (E) at the regulator is no used.
Click to expand...

Thanks I have a built in regulator in the alternator. I have the Exciter wire coming off of the ignition switch I was wondering if the light bulb for the generator could be wired in somehow so that the light would go off when the alternator is charging?
 

My alternators with built in regulators as well, you'll need to remove the original Lucas regulator under the hood and make the splices there.
The gen light doesn't go to ground, power comes from the key switch, the other side goes to the WL post on the Lucas regulator, splice it to the field wire (F on the regulator) and connect the other end to the white exciter wire on the alternator, you don't need to run a extra exciter from the key switch.
 
(quoted from post at 21:59:11 05/04/17)
My alternators with built in regulators as well, you'll need to remove the original Lucas regulator under the hood and make the splices there.
The gen light doesn't go to ground, power comes from the key switch, the other side goes to the WL post on the Lucas regulator, splice it to the field wire (F on the regulator) and connect the other end to the white exciter wire on the alternator, you don't need to run a extra exciter from the key switch.
Click to expand...

Hey that's where the confusion was there is no Lucas regulator it looks like it was removed years ago so without that I'm not sure if I can get it to work or not. The tractor already had a alternator on it. But I replaced it with one with a tach-drive on it.
 

Ok I understand now, the wiring harness on these tractors are two piece and plug together near the front of the fuel tank, on the front section about 8" from the plug there should be 5 wires that originally went to the regulator, there should be another 3 wires neat that same location about 18" long that go down toward the starter.
What have they done with those 5 wires? That's where the splicing needs to be done to make the charging system work.
 
Hey guys update
I fired the Ford up to day everything is working perfect rebuilt transmission clutch pressure plate flywheel lift that was rebuilt everything appears to be jam up I will have some more pictures and possible video in a week or so.

Hey destroke my power steering cylinder is working perfect. Question how much should the control valve move I understand the more you loosen the adjuster screws the more the control valve moves I just don't know the specs on that.

Does anybody know how to turn the fuel down on a Sims mimic pump? The engine was bored 40 over and I think they may have turned the fuel up a little bit to compensate
 
(quoted from post at 14:41:47 05/07/17)
Hey destroke my power steering cylinder is working perfect. Question how much should the control valve move I understand the more you loosen the adjuster screws the more the control valve moves I just don't know the specs on that.

Does anybody know how to turn the fuel down on a Sims mimic pump? The engine was bored 40 over and I think they may have turned the fuel up a little bit to compensate
Click to expand...

The valve on the cylinder should move .030-.060 in ether direction from the center position, I adjusted mine for .045 in both directions.
Due to a little pin wear I ended up with one stop screw set at .050 clearance and the other at .070 when the valve was centered.
I can email or text you a couple of pics of the instructions from my manual if you need them.

I wouldn't mess with the pump till you get the tractor out and use it. One doesn't adjust the pump for a over bore, but they may have turned it up for more power, If it doesn't make a lot of smoke under heavy load I wouldn't mess with it, right now I wish the pump on my 5000 was turned up a little, it could use a extra 5 or 10 hp at times.
 
Hey guys few more pictures I'm almost complete the only issue that I've had so far is the new main shaft and the new 3rd gear or not meshing good the backlash is fine it looks like the tooth angle pressure point maybe slightly off. So the main shaft is Raising sand at high RPMs so I am hoping with a few hours they will mesh.

48758.jpg



48759.jpg




48760.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 12:37:46 05/11/17) Just an FYI - that is not the correct grill for a 5000.[/quot

Yes I am very aware of that. I bought a new Cowl for the front and the only one that I could find available is for the one piece grill they don't make them anymore for the two piece grill
Click to expand...
 
Good morning everyone
I am hoping that this piece of advice we'll save somebody a big headache as most of you know I have 99% completely restored this tractor. Including transmission gears and bearings. I am going to have to split this tractor back in half after talking with Ford and several other people before purchasing the gears in the transmission they got it wrong.
3rd gear is wrong the one that runs in the front off of your main shaft. They sent me the E9NN7N315AA AND I NEED THE E6NN7N315AA. These gears have 35 teeth 28 teeth and 1.555 ID they look the same but they are not the diametrical pitch is different and that is why there is noise in the transmission. I am hoping this will help someone else not to make this mistake.
 
I have a short vid here.This is before breaking back down to replace 3rd gear. I might do a YouTube vid later.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sti553udxgpyzkb/010.mp4?d
 
Here is a couple of pictures of 3rd gear. By looking it is impossible to tell the difference in these two gears or maybe you can. The gear on top is the 315 AA the gear on bottom is the gear that came out or the transmission.

48868.jpg
 
Hey
Update It has taken me alot of time and $ to get to where I am today as I am also fighting prostate cancer.I do plan to make a video of the process in the near future for you guys that are interested.

I am down now to the injector pump being rebuilt and the power steering cylinder that Ultradog has on the way Many thanks to everyone here for there support.


Dan
 

Dan if the steering cylinder you got from me isn't working send it back and I'll refund you.
I was needing it or some parts to fix another one a couple weeks ago.
 
(quoted from post at 09:20:27 06/05/17)
Dan if the steering cylinder you got from me isn't working send it back and I'll refund you.
I was needing it or some parts to fix another one a couple weeks ago.
Click to expand...

Hey destroke
Look I didn't want to say anything to you about that. You sold the cylinder to me @ a fair price and it does work but looses alot of fluid out the weep hole which I am sure you were not aware of. You my friend have done what I would have done not many people will do that anymore! I am in the process of making a few new cylinder tubes and control valves for these units if you or anyone is interested.

When I get this cylinder on from ultradog if you find you still need it for parts I will get it back to you.thanks

DAN
 
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