Ford 4000 Ballmar brake questions

Hi Guys,

I recently acquired a Ballmar backhoe with the Ford 4000 172 ci. diesel chassis. I purchased it not running and have been bringing it back to life little by little. At this point it runs pretty well. I had the Roosa Master injection pump rebuilt. The engine has a fair amount of blowby, but I fabricated a simple crankcase ventilation system to keep the engine clean until I get around to rebuilding it later on. All the hydraulics work and I've already been putting it to use.
For now I'd like to address the brakes/ steering, even after adjusting, they still need help. It uses a skid steer style two lever setup that controls the main axle left and right brakes to steer. Can you guys take a look and tell me if they look like standard Ford stuff, or are they something unique? Also how is the linkage supposed to look on the little shutdown foot pedal? Right now, I have to reach down and pull it with my hand. Who carries the parts to restore the Select-o-speed console?

Wish me luck!
-Ray

(quoted from post at 13:08:41 12/29/16) Hi Guys,

I recently acquired a Ballmar backhoe with the Ford 4000 172 ci. diesel chassis. I purchased it not running and have been bringing it back to life little by little. At this point it runs pretty well. I had the Roosa Master injection pump rebuilt. The engine has a fair amount of blowby, but I fabricated a simple crankcase ventilation system to keep the engine clean until I get around to rebuilding it later on. All the hydraulics work and I've already been putting it to use.
For now I'd like to address the brakes/ steering, even after adjusting, they still need help. It uses a skid steer style two lever setup that controls the main axle left and right brakes to steer. Can you guys take a look and tell me if they look like standard Ford stuff, or are they something unique? Also how is the linkage supposed to look on the little shutdown foot pedal? Right now, I have to reach down and pull it with my hand. Who carries the parts to restore the Select-o-speed console?

Wish me luck!
-Ray

Click to expand...

It looks like the rear axle trumpets have been replaced by specially
designed brake/clutch units with sprocket drives.

The little pedal appears to have two holes to connect by a tightly
wound wire coil spring. Might be the same as a spring used elsewhere on
a standard Ford.

Not much of the controls on that rig looks like Ford standard equipment except for the Select-O-Speed selector.

For that pedal, it looks like you could just find an appropriately sized spring from a hardware store and connect the one end to the lower hole on the pedal and the other end to the hole on the bracket to the rear of the pedal pivot. Then you just need to press the pedal down and hold it long enough for the engine to stop running and then let your foot off and it should spring back up.

I can't tell a lot about the brakes/steering from those pictures, but if the brakes that slow one side or the other are inside those drums behind the two small sprockets then those are definitely not stock Ford tractor brakes. The original brakes on the tractor would have been drum brakes like old car drum brakes at the ends of the rear axles, with the main difference being old car drum brakes used hydraulics to actuate them and the Ford tractor drum brakes used a mechanical linkage from the brake pedals to an eccentric on a shaft to actuate them.

Also, what parts do you need for the "S-O-S Console"? Most parts are no longer available new, but you should be able to find them at a salvage yard. John Smith might have some of the things you need in stock also:

http://www.oldfordtractors.com/sospartsfs.htm

He does try to keep his parts pages up-to-date, but he may have something not listed, so it's best to email or call him to find out for sure.

Brake units look a lot like the ones on old Cat high-lifts, 931 comes to mind, also Case 450 high-lifts and dozers, Timber Jack skidders also used a brake system like that.
Two dry brake disc with a set of expanding plates in the middle.

Thanks you guys! Your feedback is exactly what I was hoping for. On the brakes I had read somewhere that Ford offered conventional drum brakes like you described, but also "wet" brakes which I don't know what they'd look like. The style that Destroked described on the Cat's and the dozers make sense. The "Actuator/ Hand Brake" parts on this page kind of look to me like how he described, but probably not the same thing? http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/c...&&md=4000&cat=Brakes&r=mcats

On the little pedal, what's throwing me off is that you need to pull it backwards to shut off, which is a little awkward. Probably will end up doing something custom with it, but would like to see how the factory did it. There's gotta be a reason for that spring bracket right? Maybe it's backwards or missing a lever somewhere?
On the SOS, for now, I'd just like to get the sticker for it. I really love the way it looks. Kinda brings the feel of a 1950's hot rod to the thing It seems there are a couple variations?

Thanks you guys! Your feedback is exactly what I was hoping for. On the brakes I had read somewhere that Ford offered conventional drum brakes like you described, but also "wet" brakes which I don't know what they'd look like. The style that Destroked described on the Cat's and the dozers make sense. The "Actuator/ Hand Brake" parts on this page kind of look to me like how he described, but probably not the same thing? http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/c...&&md=4000&cat=Brakes&r=mcats

On the little pedal, what's throwing me off is that you need to pull it backwards to shut off, which is a little awkward. Probably will end up doing something custom with it, but would like to see how the factory did it. There's gotta be a reason for that spring bracket right? Maybe it's backwards or missing a lever somewhere?
On the SOS, for now, I'd just like to get the sticker for it. I really love the way it looks. Kinda brings the feel of a 1950's hot rod to the thing It seems there are a couple variations?

I'm not sure why I can't see your last two posts in modern view. I saw that you posted something but I couldn't read what it was so I had to switch to classic view to read them.

Ford used the car style drum brakes in all pre-1965 tractor.s Starting with the new models in 1965 certain models still had the drum brakes and other models had the wet inboard brakes. The ones with the wet brakes were basically the larger tractors, the 3 cylinder 40000 and above. The type of brakes was set in stone based on the model of the tractor. There was never an option that I am aware of to install wet brakes onto a model that had drum brakes. The wet brakes were installed inside the rear axle trumpets along with double reduction planetary gears, which allowed them to put more power to the ground, both go power and stopping power.

Yea, these forums are proving to be kinda difficult for me. had to try 3 times in order to post pictures, won't let me go back and edit or delete a post. Some of the posts are only showing up under one view or another like the post from CDMN.

Thanks for the info Sean, is it possible that mine are the wet brakes? Do you know of any pictures that would show what they look like? I'm gonna try to upload a cropped picture showing it closer since the website seems to shrink them. Or is it still most likely a CAT /Dozer style?

I can't see it, but does the lever for the little pedal go down below the floor plate? That's where it should be hooked up to the push-pull rod. Maybe the whole thing was relocated from somewhere else on the tractor?

Nope, nothing underneath, just that little peddle. I bet you're right, was probably mounted in some other way.

Thanks for the info Sean, is it possible that mine are the wet brakes?

Click to expand...

No, those are not the wet brakes that Ford used on their tractors. One picture in your original batch shows the rear axle, and that isn't even a Ford rear axle. The rear axles on all of the models with both the drum brakes and the wet brakes used a standard automotive style ring and pinion gear set and a differential. I don't think that they ever used anything with a chain drive.

Do you know of any pictures that would show what they look like?

Click to expand...

Here is a picture (courtesy of Ultradog) of the rear axle of a tractor with drum brakes. Notice the axle shaft housings are shaped like "trumpets" and get narrow very quickly as the distance from the center housing increases:



And here is a picture (Also courtesy of Ultradog) of the rear axle of a tractor with wet brakes and the double reduction gears. Notice that the axle shaft housings maintain a very large diameter for the first 10 to 14 inches from the center housing before they drop down to the narrower diameter. That wide part is where the wet brakes and planetary gears for the double reduction reside: