Splitting a 4500 Ford tlb

ptfarmer · Dec 27, 2016

I need to split my Ford 4500 tlb with the torque converter. The problem is, is getting to the torque converter bolts. I'm pretty sure that I can unbolt the converter through the starter hole, is that the way it's done, or is there another way. I have pulled many, many engines/transmissions from cars, and trucks, and leaving the converter bolted to the flywheel was a big no no.

Destroked 450 · Dec 27, 2016

My shop manual says to pull the steering column to gain access to the torque convertor bolts through the hole where the column sets.
There may be another way but that's what the manual says.

Check Break · Dec 28, 2016

(quoted from post at 21:42:28 12/27/16) I can unbolt the converter through the starter hole, is that the way it's done.

Go in through the starter hole. Leaving the converter bolted to the flex plate makes a mess and invites additional damage.

ptfarmer · Dec 28, 2016

(quoted from post at 22:17:18 12/27/16)
My shop manual says to pull the steering column to gain access to the torque convertor bolts through the hole where the column sets.
There may be another way but that's what the manual says.

That's was what I was afraid of. I looked in the starter hole, and I can where you can access it by removing steering column. I can get hand in through the starter hole so I'll see if I can do it that way first. I really, really don't want to pull the steering column unless I absolutely have to.

On another note is there anywhere that I can get just a copy of the supplement shop manual for the Ford industrials tractors? Seems everyone who has the supplement also wants to sell you all the other manuals with it, but I already have those.

Destroked 450 · Dec 28, 2016

I've read on this site about going through the starter hole to get the bolts out but most said getting them back in was near impossible.
It's not a big issue pulling the steering column when splitting the tractor, only thing left to take loose is the four bolts holding the column on.
On mine I drained the tank and hooked my engine lift to a small chain attached to the steering wheel and the dash shroud using the bolt hole that the hood attaches to.

Ford only sold the manuals as a complete set also, I had a set of manuals for my 4000, when I got the 4500 I wanted the supplements but had to get the complete set, gave my brother the old set.
I've been seeing some manuals on CD at a good price (around $25-35), you could get one of those and print off the pages you need when your working on something that's not in your regular manuals.

I needed the service manuals for my F-450, they wanted nearly $300 for them, the $25 CD I bought was over 3000 pages of the exact copy of the manuals, I was impressed.

RodinNS · Dec 28, 2016

Yes, best I can recall... the torque bolts can be reached from the starter hole. It's a long time since I touched one of them on an A-62
loader but that's how it was done then... Given the option on the 4500 I might be inclined to remove the steering pedestal as long as there's
no cab in the way.

Rod

Bern · Dec 28, 2016

I've split many of these machines while leaving the converter bolted to the flywheel. All you need is a drainpan underneath to catch what comes out while splitting. Same thing when going back together. Bolt the thing onto the flywheel as if it was a clutch. Use dowels for engine-trans alignment so you don't wipe out the front pump seal, and you're good to go.

I've done many machines like this in this manner, and have never had an issue. It seems to me like trying to unbolt the converter through the starter hole would be darn near impossible, and it's certainly not worth pulling the steering box off for.

ptfarmer · Dec 28, 2016

I have yet to find anyone who has just the supplement for download. If anyone knows where I can download a copy of the supplement (or have it in a zip file that could be emailed) you would certainly be a lifesaver. As for not unbolting the converter, I've seen a lot people making good parts into junk parts doing that (I usually wind up fixing that mess up).

Bern · Dec 28, 2016

Make yourself up some 5/8" coarse thread dowels, about 6" long, and thread them into the transmission case before you roll the engine away. This will keep everything perfectly aligned as you roll it apart, and you will not hurt anything. And of course, you would use the same dowels going back together. Think about it - what can you hurt if it's rolled apart in a straight line? I could see this being an issue in the automotive world where insufficient clearance would not allow for long dowels, but this not a problem here.

Trust me, I've done it this way many, many times without an issue, and would not think twice about it if I had to do it again today.

Bern · Dec 28, 2016

Here you go - I finally found it - straight from Ford.

By the way, the actual pdf is over 1600 pages and 500 megs.

RickB · Dec 28, 2016

That's the way it has been done here at this dealership for 46 years. Probably done the same way across the street before that................

Bern · Dec 28, 2016

I was hoping you'd chime in on this one Rick - thanks for making me not feel like a loner out there!

Bern · Dec 28, 2016

Rod,

An A62 wheel loader and a 4500 only share one similarity, that being the manufacturer of the engine.

I've worked on a few A66 loaders back in the day, but I don't recall now how I separated the TC from the engine.

Destroked 450 · Dec 28, 2016

A company I worked for had a 62 wheel loader, had the 256 engine out of it a few times, Best I remember I went through the starter hole to access the torque convertor bolts, don't remember how they came out but it had a multi layer drive plate and didn't use spacers like a 4500.
Last time I had the engine out we swapped in a 268 turbo engine to replace the 256 turbo that was totally shot, made night and day difference in that loader, with the 268 the loader ran better than the day it was new.

RickB · Dec 28, 2016

There's a fixture used to center the TC on the flex plate. You probably know that, Bern. Impossible to make use of it working through the starter hole. I don't understand all this trepidation about trashing the TC hub seal. It just takes a level of awareness................

Bern · Dec 28, 2016

Yes, I'm aware of the centering tool you're talking about. As I recall, it came out some time after Ford started to use torque converters, and was announced in a service bulletin as a way to help reduce flex plate failures. Furthermore, if memory serves, said tool was used to center the flexplate to the converter, and was done on the bench.

ptfarmer · Dec 29, 2016

I decided to split it without unbolting the torque converter, cut a old 55 gal barrel down to fit underneath to catch the oil. Now the $10,000 question is the tool used to center the converter to the flywheel. I have access to a lathe, and a cnc milling machine so I can make one, but I can't find a picture(s), or measurements for the tool. I can even make a extra one, or two of it if you need one, I assume its a pretty simple tool to make.

Bern · Dec 29, 2016

The tool centers the converter to the flex plate, not to the flywheel. If you leave the flexplate on the converter, and there's nothing wrong with it, you'd be fine to just bolt it back on. Having said that, more often than not the flexplate will be found to have cracks in it - check it over carefully. In fact, later versions of said flexplate used a backup reinforcement plate. Look up the flexplate for a 555B and you'll see what I mean.

The tool was very simple as I recall. It was a flat steel bar, and the center of it piloted on the nose of the converter, and the two ends had pegs that piloted into two flexplate mounting holes 180 degrees apart. Maybe Rick can dig his up and take a picture for you.

ptfarmer · Dec 29, 2016

Thank you, I really appreciate all the info everyone has given me on this deal. The number 1 rod bearing is a little loose so hopefully it didn't hurt the crank too bad. I do have the dye penetrant crack testing kit so the flex plate will be checked for cracks. Thank you everyone for putting up with me, everyone has been a tremendous help since this is the first Ford tractor converter/transmission setup I've ever worked on.

ptfarmer · Dec 29, 2016

Not a bad buy for $1400.00 even if I have to put another $2000 - $3000 in it.

Town Piddler · Apr 2, 2017

See this post with photos regarding putting it back together.

Post subject: Ford 4500 Reconnecting 4sp reversing tranny. Right sequence?
http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1266076

You can remove the engine, etc. without removing any torque converter bolts, but be careful not to damage the transmission spline - pull the engine away level and straight. The engine, flywheel, torque converter and flexplate will all come off together. Given the post that I mentioned, and the fact that you will eventually have the steering column off to put it back together, you might as well go ahead and do it for the split.

Splitting a 4500 Ford tlb

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

New User

Similar threads