Ford 5000 PTO problem

Hi All,

Firstly, I am new to this forum. I am from South Africa and a new farmer. Recently bought my first tractor, a 1973 Ford 5000 Diesel. I bought it supposedly "reconditioned" but don't think the whole tractor was properly checked and I am not sure what was actually reconditioned and what not.

I had a front loader installed so it had hydraulics added as well as power steering and the hydraulics seems fine, the lift seems to work fine and the hydraulics lifts a full bucket on the loader so that aspect seems good.

The tractor was bought to work grass fields. Fertilizing, cutting, raking, baling, ripping, dissing etc so its important for me that everything on it works properly. I want to start working new grass fields with it intensively.

This past week I used the PTO for the first time. At first I struggled to get it going, its an independent PTO but then I got it working. We fertilized a few hectares, I disengaged it and after that could not get it engaged again no matter what I fiddled with. The next morning I fiddled with it again and got it working again. We went back to the field but after a short amount of time the PTO disengaged itself. Since then I have never been able to get it working again.

I opened the transmission and saw almost no oil in there. I could not find a level plug anywhere so I went to a neighbor to check his tractor and it had the square headed level plug on the side of the transmission so I made a dip stick to fill mine to the same level. I was under the impression the transmission took about 10 litres of oil but after adding a full 20 litre drum, the level is not going up. After some research I found that maybe internal seals are leaking and its running through to the Diff. I also read somewhere that some of these tractors had a the diff and transmission compartments combined? Is it possible that this is the case or is my tractor faulty?

If I start the tractor and look inside the transmission, I see oil flowing there, it looks like some kind of pump is pumping the oil around the transmission. The clutch and gears work properly so no problem there, so does the Diff lock and lift.

Basically what does not work is the PTO. Could this be related to the oil issue or is there some kind of trick to get it engaged? As far as I understand you switch it on and off by simply pulling the PTO level up or pushing it down.

Any help appreciated!

If it is an 8 speed transmission with the dual power option, then yes, I am pretty sure that the transmission and rear axle are a common sump. Not on any others though.

The pump for the 3 point lift is actually 2 pumps in one. A larger higher flow, more powerful pump in the front section for the 3 point, and a second smaller pump in the rear just for the PTO control valve that controls the PTO clutch and brake. The external handle that you move to control the PTO merely moves the control valve spool. In one position the brake is disengaged and the clutch is engaged, and in the other position it's visa-versa

Could be a number of different causes for your issue:

1. PTO section of the pump needs to be rebuilt.
2. PTO brake is stuck.
3. Control valve needs to be rebuilt.

I believe the service manual has a procedure for testing the PTO pump pressure and other troubleshooting procedures for the PTO brake and control valve. I have never worked on that specific model but other here who have should jump in shortly and give some more model specific troubleshooting advice.

The PTO on that tractor is independent... it uses a hydraulically actuated wet clutch. If it's low on hydraulic oil it will not work.... but
it the hitch works then it should have enough oil for the PTO to work. It is possible that the clutch piston seals or the slip rings are
leaking in the rear clutch support causing the problem. I forget if there is a test port on those pumps to test the circuit pressure or not.
The PTO pressure supply is a separate piggy back pump on the rear of the main pump... and it should operate at about 160 psi. Probably what I
would do in your situation is pull the hydraulic lift cover off (just the outer ring of bolts)... then redirect the main pump flow back into
the sump with a piece of 1/2" hose... then start the engine and see where the PTO is leaking. Normally you would need to do a rear split to
service the PTO clutch but on that one, provided there is no load monitor... you should be able to service it through the top if you remove
the top link rocker and pull the upper shaft out the rear at the arpeture in front of the rocker.

Rod

Not sure what transmission your tractor has, if it's a 8 spd it should have had the square plug like your neighbors.

Best advice I can give at this time is you need to purchase the proper manuals for your tractor.
They have them on this site at a decent price.
5000 G&D 4 cyl (1968-1975)
operators manual = FO-0-2-5000 $29.95 (you need this one)
service manual = 65-FTSM $79.95 (if your going to do your own repairs)

Forgot to mention earlier.... the only 5000 models that had a common sump were the dual power models and possibly some very late 75 model 8
speeds. In your case I would wager someone has removed the seals between the transmission and rear axle which is probably a net positive in
my opinion. Just fill it to the correct hydraulic level whether that's on the side of the rear axle by the pump or on the left rear by the
PTO. Should take 56 L. I usually just dump 3 buckets in and call it good if I'm filling a dry housing.
It doesn't matter what transmission you have in terms of PTO repair as the hydraulics/PTO are identical in basic arrangement in all 5000
variants.

Rod

All 5000's I have seen have a test port on the pump; rh side (behind the brakes) pump port thread is a straight thread, you could drill and tap the plug for pipe thread to plumb for a gauge.(That's what's done to operate tractors with dual power)

The 5000 I just bought had the nylon hose from pump to PTO valve blocked with brass shavings, mine read over 300 psi at the port, since pressure regulation takes place at the control valve. As you might expect, PTO clutch did not engage.

Zeke B.

Great guys, thanks for all the input so far.

So firstly, I am happy that the transmission/Diff section oil which seems to be one compartment is not a train smash. Its a regular 8 speed transmission, I don't think its a dual power (Not even sure what that is) so someone probably removed the seals or they have perished. Also, I had to replace the brake rubber boots a while ago so had to drain the hydraulic fluid and I remember putting about 40 litres back in there and now added another drum so total roughly 60 litres which seems OK for now. I will drain and re fill with the correct 56 litres at some point.

Still, with it being 8 speed manual, there is still no level plug on the transmission. Perhaps the tractor have had a transmission swap or engine swap at some point.

So the next step would then be to remove the top cover. I count 15 bolts. I'm not an experienced mechanic at all so this seems a bit intimidating to me. I might get someone with knowledge on these tractors to help me. Except for the obvious (Lift Arms, top link bracket and hydraulic pipes) will the top come off by removing the 15 bolts only? What about the hydraulic selector and flow control etc, will that not fall apart when lifting the top off? It also seems very heavy, I suppose you need to lift it off with a block & Tackle.

On the subject of the hydraulic selector. Some times when I pull it out to engage external hydraulics, it does not work. I need to then fiddle with it by pushing it in and out multiple times to get the external hydraulics working. So I suppose its a good thing to have the top off to see if I can get that issue solved while fixing the pto issue.

Where is the hydraulic pumps situated and where exactly is the port to test for the hydraulic pressure on the PTO? Does it not perhaps make sense to fit a pressure gauge in that port permanently?

I will buy the manuals and start learning how this machine works but at the moment money is non-existant and our country's currency have crashed so 79$ is a lot of money for us.

Here are some pics of my transmission (without the level plug) and the right hand side of the top and hydraulics.



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I forget how many bolts is in the lift cover.... something like 15. There is also one in under the rock shaft on the right side I think so
just be sure to get them all. They're all visible; just that one is a bit inconspicuous. Once they are all removed you can lift the cover
up with all the valves and controls in place. You will probably have to work it asround a bit to get the oil supply pipe free at the right
front side but otherwise it should be fairly straight forward. I've used engine cranes, pallet forks on a skid loader and plain old bull
work to get them lifted off. Removing the seat and bolting a 3' piece of channel on there facing rearwards makes a good lifting platform to
clamp to a pallet fork. If you have to do it manually.... a couple 2x4's under each side of the rock shaft will facilitate lifting it high
enough to slide it rearwards.
Once you can see... you'll probably have to drain the oil level down to a minimum so you can see all the PTO parts and supply lines.

The hydraulic pump is on the right side near where your heel would sit, but below the footboard.... 8x8" aluminum housing. If you can find
a test port on that it should show 150 psi at a fast idle. It's best to check the pressure of you can but I would not worry much about
permanently keeping a gauge on a 5000. Later models.... yes it is good to have... but a 5000 is pretty simple by comparison. Only one
clutch on the circuit and it's fairly robust.

The transmision may have a level plug on the right side vs the left side? It would look like the pipe plug you see on the left side of
yours, but lower.

The problem you have with the ASC valve may be related to a torn o-ring. That is something you can inspect when the lift cover is
removed...


Rod

On my 5000 the rear sump is filled by a plug behind the seat on top of the lift cover, its a big hex and is a large opening. The level plug is a smaller square head on the left side of the rear end about PTO shaft level.

Looks like you have the European style hand brake, so that may be why the level check plug isn't there or isn't visible. The parts site shows a few different versions of dipsticks on the left side as well, but it doesn't specify which tractor options they might have came with other than one that mentions "w/Load Monitor, start year 01-OCT-71", but the others don't specify anything, not even a year range.

(quoted from post at 23:39:45 11/22/16) On my 5000 the rear sump is filled by a plug behind the seat on top of the lift cover, its a big hex and is a large opening. The level plug is a smaller square head on the left side of the rear end about PTO shaft level.

Click to expand...

Yes, on the hydraulic side mine is like that but I have a Hydraulic line connected to where the level plug would normally be.

My concern was the transmission level plug which I don't have. Maybe it just came with a dipstick.

Have you looked on the right side of the transmission for the level plug? Your picture only shows the left side.

Also, where does the hydraulic line go that is connected where the level check plug would normally be on the center housing?