Ford 4000 runs hot

RNation

Member
I have read and read all over google about this but cannot find a solution, perhaps you guys can help me out.

My tractor is a 3 cylinder gas engine Ford 4000 w/ the SOS tranny.

My issue is that the tractor will idle at the right temp but will slowly heat up when driving, with and without a load (no implements and no PTO).

Something else to not is that the coolant has bubbles or foam when I shut down the tractor.

Things I have tried for troubleshooting:
1)Checked thermostat by boiling in a pot and shooting with a temp gun...it is good.
2)Had radiator professionally rodded out and checked for leaks... it is good.
3)Checked radiator hoses for collapse when engine is hot... they are good.
4)Timing is good.
5)Ran a combustion gas check in the coolant to see if head gasket or cracked head/block might be the culprit. The blue liquid is supposed to turn yellow if combustion gas is present, it did not turn yellow. ( I thought this might explain the bubbles/foam).
6)All fluid levels are good. Oil and Trans fluid and hydrolic fluid.
7)Water seems to be circulating well. I peaked in the radiator while running and water was moving around pretty well. No water out of weap hole.

Another thing to note is that today I could not get it to overheat, I'm guessing because the outside temp was in the 60s. My overheating issues have been during temps above roughly 75-80 degrees. Also, the temp gauge did go into the red 1 time as far as I know and that was for probably a minute or 2.

Any help would be appreciated, I'm at a loss here. Thanks in advance.
 
If it's not pushing coolant out then I would say the head gasket is fine...
If you want to get a good accurate shot of operating temperature with an IR heat gun, I would aim for the intersection of the block and head
on #1 on the intake side. That is about the only place I find good readings with a heat gun. It is quite possible that you have a bad voltage
stabilizer or bad gauge if it is not otherwise seeming to run hot. But try to verify that temperature first.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 21:36:01 10/14/16) If it's not pushing coolant out then I would say the head gasket is fine...
If you want to get a good accurate shot of operating temperature with an IR heat gun, I would aim for the intersection of the block and head
on #1 on the intake side. That is about the only place I find good readings with a heat gun. It is quite possible that you have a bad voltage
stabilizer or bad gauge if it is not otherwise seeming to run hot. But try to verify that temperature first.

Rod

My grandpa had mentioned getting a new temp sending unit with a new temp gauge just to verify the temp is in fact hot. That's what I'll do then.

The tractor is about an hour away so I won't be able to try it out until next weekend but I will report back.

The radiator is not clogged. I had it rodded out and there was a few leaks that were fixed. This was done by a gentleman that specializes in radiator repairs and has been doing so for 35 years so I'm counting the radiator out as a culprit for now.

The fan belt was replaced also, forgot to mention that in original post.
 
Is the tractor actually getting hot. What is the block temperature with the heat gun. I had the same thing, gauge went up to hot but the
block temp never exceeded 210. Mine was either the sender or a short or something electrical in the gauge wiring.
 
(quoted from post at 12:01:53 10/15/16) Is the tractor actually getting hot. What is the block temperature with the heat gun. I had the same thing, gauge went up to hot but the
block temp never exceeded 210. Mine was either the sender or a short or something electrical in the gauge wiring.

I'm guessing it's getting hot because the fluid does overflow a little bit out of the overflow tube, but not a lot and not all the time. So I guess I'm not actually certain, I had just assumed the temp gauge was correct.

Would bubbles/foam plus coolant over flowing a bit from the overflow tube mean that the tractor is getting hot or not necessarily?
 
Ok........ if the coolant is down a few inches in the top tank it should not push coolant unless it's very hot. If you fill it to the cap it
will push when it gets hot because the coolant expands... So... if it's down, and it keeps on pushing more out to the point that it will
empty itself, all the while making foam, black froth and bubbles... then yes, you have a head/gasket issue. If not, then I'd wager on a
gauge/instrument problem. Another indication of an instrument problem is a fuel gauge that always reads high/full.
Rod
 
The other fellows have pretty well covered the usual things that cause over heating issues. I will add to check timing and is it running lean??? An engine running too advanced will run hot and too lean of a fuel mixture can cause hotter running
 
i am ivor from UK and I am going to throw in my 2 cents worth .. In 2000 I bought a john deere 2040 which had been neglected .. In cold weather there was no problem with overheating but in hot weather the temp gauge would rise . I checked all things fanbelt tension hosed out radiator inside and out and changed thermostat but no change. I noticed fan blade was very dirty and after I cleaned both sides of blades there was a big improvement in cooling
 
(quoted from post at 21:15:17 10/15/16) Ok........ if the coolant is down a few inches in the top tank it should not push coolant unless it's very hot. If you fill it to the cap it
will push when it gets hot because the coolant expands... So... if it's down, and it keeps on pushing more out to the point that it will
empty itself, all the while making foam, black froth and bubbles... then yes, you have a head/gasket issue. If not, then I'd wager on a
gauge/instrument problem. Another indication of an instrument problem is a fuel gauge that always reads high/full.
Rod

The coolant level is roughly 1 inch down when cold, maybe it needs to be down a couple more inches?

The fuel gauge does not read full all the time but is definitely wrong. It reads correct after I fill the tank but doesn't read correct again until the tank is really low, maybe that's an indicator.

I checked the timing and it is correct. #1 was at TDC on the compression stroke, the flywheel arrow mark was inline with 0 degrees. The number 1 distributor spot was pointed at #1. The gap was the recommended (.025ish I believe).

The fan blades had not crossed my mind. I will clean them just to be able to rule that out.
 
Before getting a new sender, be aware, these 3 cyl's used 2 different senders. Make sure you get the right one...... they are a bit@* to
change and you don't want to do it twice! Mine stared acting up after taking the proof meter unit out for painting. I am sure sure it was
electrical, but never figured it out.

Bill
 
That is correct. However, I seldom find that the sender is bad unless you break the blade off of it. Usually the gauge is the culprit.
Rod
 
I'm not familiar with the timing procedure for that engine.... but what you describe does not exactly sound correct... or at least not
precise. If you haven't used a timing light on it or have proficiency with setting it by ear I would not have much confidence that you have
the advance set correctly...

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 08:10:54 10/16/16) I'm not familiar with the timing procedure for that engine.... but what you describe does not exactly sound correct... or at least not
precise. If you haven't used a timing light on it or have proficiency with setting it by ear I would not have much confidence that you have
the advance set correctly...

Rod

The way I checked is the way that the manual directed but I will see if I can hunt down a timing light and see what those results tell me.

As of now it appears I need to make sure the temp gauge and/or sending unit are working properly and also double check the timing.
 
I'm going to get a timing light and try it out this weekend.

My confusion is that the shop manual (I&T) and the owners guiide say to do 2 different things. And I don't have prior experience with timing.

Anybody have any pointers or experience with timing this tractor before?
 
I got the timing light hooked up and it read at 6 degrees. The book calls for 4 degrees, plus or minus 2 degrees. So that appears to be close.

Do you think that 2 degrees would be enough to run the machine hot?

It won't run hot now that there is a bit of a chill in the air (50s) if that means anything.
 

NO.. 2 degrees is not a problem.. When the engine reved up,, did the timing advance?? it should as the centrifugal advance unit works at higher rpms...


start tractor cold with radiator cap off... warm up to normal temp... fill radiator all the way to top... then watch for bubbles...must keep water at top... and.. if you see bubbles every so often or continuous.. you have a problem... if you gun the engine and see lots of bubbles you have a problem.. once all the air is out and water is to top,, bubbles should quickly stop and no more bubbles..
 
I will check for bubble next.

Right now I do know that with the fluid level where it should be (a couple inches below the top) I only get bubbles/foam after shutting down the tractor, not while driving.

A couple weeks ago I tried to check for combustion gas in the coolant with this tool/liquid setup I got from the auto parts store. The liquid did not change colors indicating the combustion gases were not present. My only concern is that the tractor always idles at the right temp but when driving it gets hot. I could not do the test while driving.
 
Well it's not looking good. There is bubbles/foam in the coolant at the top of the radiator as the tractor is running. I've attached a photo, let me know what you think.

Does that mean bad head gaset?

The image URL is located on my website, I hope that is okay.

tractor-coolant.jpg
[/img]
 
Sorry the image was so big, I tried to edit the post with a smaller image but it wouldn't allow it. Let me know if you'd like me to add another image that is much smaller.
 

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