Ford 3000 Head Gasket is baffling me

lastcowboy32

Well-known Member
So we've worked this Ford 3000 that we've recently purchased for a few cycles of doing hay now. Haybine...rake...bale...haul loads.

It's been running fabulously since we took care of its initial ignition troubles.

But....it has acted up a couple of times.

Two days ago, running the baler, my father-in-law was finishing up a backswath along the woods. He didn't loosen the baler chamber clamps, and he was kicking out bales packed like concrete. Of course, he runs the tractor at the redline on the baler (despite my explanation that 540 PTO RPM is at about 3/4 throttle.

I was picking up bales with our recently rebuilt 2N and heard the 3000 start skipping about half way through the backswath. He just left it pegged and finished the row and went home.

Back at home, I immediately checked the plugs. Sure enough, plug wire for number 1 was blown right out of the bore. I put that back on and tested. Engine ran fine...but it spewed some coolant from the front corner of the head gasket, right above the fuel pump. That lasted about a minute and cleared up. Ran fine.

I went to town to pick up some Bar's sealant and fresh oil, just in case it had pushed some coolant into the oil.

Back home, I put in the sealant according to instructions, refilled the radiator to just above the core, which only took maybe a quart of antifreeze. I idled for 15 minutes according to the instructions with no issues. I changed the oil during the one hour cool down time. After we turned it back on, it was dry as a bone. My father-in-law went to bale the next field, again at full throttle with no issues.

He moved down to the next field and baled a couple of more hours with no issues. He then, again, went to do the backswath without loosening the baler. Again, as the baler started pushing out bales packed like concrete, the number one plug wire blew off, and coolant seeped from that same spot in the head gasket.

We had about five minutes of baling left and a rainstorm bearing down. I told him to let it cool, top off the radiator, loosen the baler to proper tension and finish up. Again no more leaks, ran fine.

We then hooked it up and ran it for a couple of hours pulling wagons while we loaded and unloaded. No problems.

Now, we have about four more days of hay to do. My father-in-law is going back to Florida. Maybe that's a blessing, and I'll be able to run this enough to finish haying, just as long as I don't overpressure the engine?

I've never seen a leak that seem to appear when the engine is maxed, but otherwise operates fine....or could all of this be another symptom of compression leaking around the plugs, or through the plugs, as evidenced by the plug wires (which ARE snapped on) getting blown right out of their bores...
 
I wonder if there would be any utility in pulling the valve cover and checking the head bolt torques as a
temporary measure.
 
Blowing the plug wire off is simply a matter of combustion pressure getting past the seal on the spark plug. Replace the plug or its crush
washer. Be sure the bore is clean when you reinstall. Torque properly.
 
I have an old Axiom to which I subscribe in my old(er) age...will be 75 next month. "If it ain't busted, don't fix it"......with respect to the head bolt retorqueing. I don't even go back and tweak them after a valve job even though the manual written back in 1955 says to do it.
 
(quoted from post at 17:47:55 08/21/16) Blowing the plug wire off is simply a matter of combustion pressure getting past the seal on the spark plug. Replace the plug or its crush
washer. Be sure the bore is clean when you reinstall. Torque properly.

Oddly, this is one case where I actually did use a torque wrench to install. The very first day, I had trouble with the number 2 cylinder. I retorqued by feel, and the problem went away. I used the tractor on the haybine for maybe six or seven hours and the baler for another five or six before I had this problem with the number 1 cylinder and the accompanying head gasket coolant bleeding.

I think I can get a handle on the plug boot blowing off. Number 2 cylinder just needed a little tweaking. I should be able to tweak the number 1 spark plug (or replace it if the leak is through the plug itself). It's this coolant bleed that goes with it that has me worried.

I don't know if the two are related.

As far as, if it aint broke, don't fix it. I get that, but coolant squeezing out the side of my head gasket every once in a while qualifies as at least intermittently "broke" to me. I don't mind letting the machine run, if I'm not doing more damage to it.

What I would really like is to just get the machine through the rest of haying. It seems that I can run it up to maybe 80 to 90% of capacity smoothly without any issues.

The weather is clear for another few days, so I guess I'll get a chance to put that to the test.
 
I can make most any 1/2" head bolt Ford leak coolant past the head gasket by putting it on a dyno and loading it down when it's cold. The leak slowly stops after it warms up. If this describes your machine, I would not worry about a small coolant leak.
 
(quoted from post at 10:07:44 08/22/16) I can make most any 1/2" head bolt Ford leak coolant past the head gasket by putting it on a dyno and loading it down when it's cold. The leak slowly stops after it warms up. If this describes your machine, I would not worry about a small coolant leak.

That's interesting.
 
(quoted from post at 10:07:44 08/22/16) I can make most any 1/2" head bolt Ford leak coolant past the head gasket by putting it on a dyno and loading it down when it's cold. The leak slowly stops after it warms up. If this describes your machine, I would not worry about a small coolant leak.

I talked to my brother, a veteran of many old tractor fixes/rebuilds and such (but almost all Farmall/International), about it.

I asked him if putting another dose of block sealer in the coolant would be an issue. I was concerned that it would gum up the engine and make bigger problems down the road.

It didn't seem to worry him.

He said that certain models of Subaru and other modern cars are shipped brand new with recommendations for always keeping "coolant conditioner" in them to seal little leaks that they're known for.

Are these old Fords a little like that? Is it a good idea to keep a little bit of sealer in the coolant at all times?
 
I've got one here with 1/2" head bolts that will sometimes weep a bit.... but generally I don't see them leak and don't want to. I'd question
what actual torque values you got on it. I always chase the threads on those engine when doing a head gasket, clean the holes good and make
sure the dowels are good as I've had heads hang up on them.
My opinion... it really shouldn't leak unless like Bern suggested it was taken to full power from cold. That's not what you're doing and in
the normal course of events, working at full power it still shouldn't leak. Piling goop into it is only going to make for more headaches as
those engines already have a marginal cooling system...

Rod
 

Thanks for another data point.

I'm not a big fan of sealer. It worries me. If I can just take it easy on the old girl and get my hay in, I would rather do that.

Once the hay is in, I don't mind laying it up for a while to go through the cooling system and do a head gasket on it.

If there's one thing I've learned from my 2N, it's that it's nice to dig into a tractor when you have the time and make everything right that you can find. It's just much less stress to take a tractor out to the field that doesn't have mystery leaks and quirks.

My oil pressure is excellent, so I don't think I need to even look at the bottom of the engine.

This is a new (to me) tractor, so someone may have already been putting sealer in it. I'd rather not pile the crap up, if I don't have to.
 
If the coolant loss is not measurable in the neck of the radiator, then just go and don't sweat it. The kind of leak I was talking about in my last post could probably be measured in teaspoons per year. In other words, just enough of a leak to make a trail of green slime down the side of the block. And, it's strictly an external leak, meaning nothing else is being damaged or contaminated.

If you do replace the gasket someday, follow Rod's suggestion and make sure the holes and bolt threads are as clean as they can be. Lube the threads and head spotface mating surfaces sparingly with oil when assembling. Also, some of the older engines used flat washers with the bolts. It's remotely possible that the bolts might be bottoming out in the block if the washers have been removed and/or the block/head have been surfaced in the past. To check for this, install the head on the block without the gasket and make sure the bolts bottom out on the head surface when you run them in by hand.
 

Could someone maybe riddle me this?

I was thinking about this "leak" I only see it along the seam of the head gasket on the exhaust manifold side, after the tractor has been run at full throttle with one of the spark plug boots blown off.

I was thinking that I noticed dampness around one of the exhaust manifold ports at the same time.

Could I be seeing unspent fuel from the cylinder that has a plug not firing at all? Could it be leaking from the exhaust manifold and just running along the head gasket seam?

I remember wiping some of it and trying to smell it, it didn't have a strong, gassy smell to it, it was too thin to be oil, so I assumed coolant.

Where would the fuel go from a cylinder that's not firing its plug at all???
 

That would also explain why I can put the boot back on and run the tractor with no problems, until the boot blows again.
 
Have you retorqued the spark plugs? Not unusual to have to retorque something after several heat cycles. I assume you recently replaced your plug wires. I replaced mine a couple years ago and battled the same issue until I slipped the boot up the wires and made sure the ends were secure on the plugs. I had to rebend a few. I think that is part of using the one size fits all aftermarket wires.
 
I forgot to add, double check and make sure your valve cover gasket isn't where the leak is coming from. Those are cork gaskets and not unusual for them to weep on the exhaust side.
 

Everything that Bern says, plus a couple things I'd be looking at with 40 years of experience with Fords. Consider re-torquing the head bolts and take a look at your plugs. NGK and Autolite seem to be reliable, Champion and off brands, not so much some times.
 
(quoted from post at 15:34:12 08/22/16) Have you retorqued the spark plugs? Not unusual to have to retorque something after several heat cycles. I assume you recently replaced your plug wires. I replaced mine a couple years ago and battled the same issue until I slipped the boot up the wires and made sure the ends were secure on the plugs. I had to rebend a few. I think that is part of using the one size fits all aftermarket wires.

Yes, I have retorqued the plugs, and I've gone back out now and worked the machine for about four hours at various tasks, including running the haybine on a steep hillside, which is about as hard of a job as any on our farm. My fluid levels have held OK, and no more weeping around the exhaust manifold and/or head gasket.

It looks promising that I'll at least get the hay done just by not stressing the machine to its absolute maximum and keeping my spark plugs tight.
 

Unburnt fuel or valve cover leak, there's no water on that side of the engine, the cam is on the left side of the engine so the area around the exhaust ports is where the push rods go up to the rocker arms.

Hope your square baler is in real good condition with your FIL running it wide open, my old NH270 runs better operated a couple hundred rpm lower than pto speed.
Running a square baler at full throttle really whips the plunger around, Had a neighbor that ran his full throttle saying he could get more hay baled that way, guess it worked until he blew the plunger out.
 
(quoted from post at 06:55:41 08/23/16)
Unburnt fuel or valve cover leak, there's no water on that side of the engine, the cam is on the left side of the engine so the area around the exhaust ports is where the push rods go up to the rocker arms.

Hope your square baler is in real good condition with your FIL running it wide open, my old NH270 runs better operated a couple hundred rpm lower than pto speed.
Running a square baler at full throttle really whips the plunger around, Had a neighbor that ran his full throttle saying he could get more hay baled that way, guess it worked until he blew the plunger out.

I'm with you on that. I like to hear the plunger tic like a clock, about 60 strokes per minute. I've read that you're putting hay through at a good speed to make good bale shape at about 13 strokes per bale.

Me personally? Since I have to fix the baler when it breaks and pile the bales and stand on the mow...I like to run 60 strokes per minute and try to maintain about 13 strokes per bale. I take it easy on my tractor, my baler and make a nicely shaped bale.

With this particular tractor and typical "double" windrows, that works out to second or third gear and just over half throttle.

Now...my father-in-law? He likes to see the tractor and baler rock from the plunger...says it packs a tight bale that way.

I try to explain...
 

By the way, thanks for the tip regarding what fluids are more likely to be found on what side of that engine. Handy to know...
 
Could someone maybe riddle me this? If one of the cylinders is not firing because the plug wire is off, isn't it likely that the temperature of that cylinder is lower and it's leaking at every gasket? ( Fuel out the exhaust port and coolant at the head gasket. ) Two cylinders are firing and getting hotter, and the metals are expanding and the one that isn't firing is actually being called by the unburned fuel passing through it.
 
(quoted from post at 17:20:46 08/25/16) Could someone maybe riddle me this? If one of the cylinders is not firing because the plug wire is off, isn't it likely that the temperature of that cylinder is lower and it's leaking at every gasket? ( Fuel out the exhaust port and coolant at the head gasket. ) Two cylinders are firing and getting hotter, and the metals are expanding and the one that isn't firing is actually being called by the unburned fuel passing through it.

Good question. All I know is, I'm thankful that it's not happening anymore, now that I tweaked the spark plug even tighter than the torque spec (just a little) and the plug wire stays on, I run on three cylinders ALL the time and I don't get this mystery leak from the exhaust port/head gasket seam.


From now on, if the tractor starts to skip, it's getting shut off instantly and getting plug wires checked.

Whatever's going on during loss of the plug wire isn't something that I want going on for any length of time.
 

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