Ford 601 12V

spdjnky_42

New User
Hello all. Thank you for adding me. Just picked up a 601. Tractor was used very little. Previous owner swapped in a 12v battery years ago. Tractor seemed to always work but things like the ammeter read backwards. When i bought it, i added a new battery. I put positive to the wiring and ground to the chassis. Tractor worked the first day. Some time later i went and tried to start it and the solenoid would soark and smoke. Got to reading about positive ground, so i reversed the leads. They fit better this way so i figured i made a mistake. Doesnt matter how its hooked up but now after about 10 minutes of being off the generator smokes. Any ideas what i need to do? Good posibilty previous own never changed anything from 6v.
 
Sounds like you have 2 problems.
#1 the starter has gone bad so that is why the solenoid smoked.
#2 sound like you do not have a generator but you have an alternator and if you hook up a tractor with 99.9% of alternators + ground you will smoke the alternator in short order.
So at this point sounds like you need to have the 2 checked at an auto part store or other such place
 
Thanks but starter works fine and i know what a generator and an alternator are. At this point maybe for $200 id be better off doing the alternator conversion
 
$200 for an alternator conversion is way to much unless your including the battery. A simple Delco 10SI that fits say a 1980 Chev pickup no power any thing no AC will run you around $50. Then a bit if wiring which will maybe be another $20 if you also include the plug you need for the sense and excite part of the alternator. So with out including the battery the cost is around $75 or so if that much. I have NEVER payed for a conversion kit for them and have done well over 100 conversions over the years
 

Delco 10SI is $49 here, if you don't want to make your own brackets their about $20 on this site, a little wiring and done or you can get the hole kit on this site for under $90.
Only 12v positive ground I ever worked on was on a Fordson Dexta, after burning out two regulators we converted it to a Delco and turned the battery around to negative ground.
 

Delco 10SI is $49 here, if you don't want to make your own brackets their about $20 on this site, a little wiring and done or you can get the hole kit on this site for under $90.
Only 12v positive ground I ever worked on was on a Fordson Dexta, after burning out two regulators we converted it to a Delco and turned the battery around to negative ground.
 
I did a 641 conversion about seven years ago for a friend.

At the time, I didn't know about this forum, I simply used a schematic like the one that I'm attaching. (see bottom of this post)

With a little luck, it worked the first time, and has lasted these seven years with no problems.

So...Maybe by telling you what I thought about when I did my conversion will help you retrace what was done to your tractor.

The schematic shows what the wiring should look like after the 12V conversion. Note that there is no "regulator" shown, because the alternator that most conversions use should have its own built in regulator, if I remember correctly, the alternator that I bought had a little connector on the side that had a couple of wires, the person that sold me the alternator told me how to wire those two wires at the alternator itself in order to ensure that its internal regulator was working correctly.

The guy that sold me the conversion kit told me, no matter what polarity of ground the tractor started with....it should be negative ground (Negative of battery to chassis) when I was done.

From looking at the schematic, I realized that the ammeter running forward or backwards can be independent of how the tractor is grounded. I took care of determining how the system was grounded first. Then I hooked up my Ammeter as one of the last connections. I figured that I would look at the polarity of the reading the first time that I tested the system (start and run) and switch the wires at the ammeter if I didn't like the polarity. I can't remember if I guessed correctly or not...but either way, I would have changed the polarity of the ammeter reading by changing the two connections at the ammeter. I would have left everything else alone.

Also note that the schematic shows a 12V coil with "internal resistor." You should check your wiring from the key to the coil to see if a resistor was put inline, because that's a trick that could have been done in order to use the old 6V coil. I'm not advocating for either approach. I'm just telling you what to look for on a machine that you didn't do the conversion on. In the conversion that I did, I used the existing coil from the 6V ignition and an external resistor, because I work in a lab, and we had resistors of the right value laying around.

Now...if you think that you have a 12V "generator", then a few things might change and I'm admittedly out of my league.

One thing that comes to mind, though is that 6V "generators" on older tractors usually needed external regulators, and sometimes, whenever the battery was disconnected, you would have to touch the battery's non-grounded terminal to the "BATT" terminal (or equivalent) on the generator in order to ensure that the generator would be polarized correctly.

Good luck, and there are others here far more experienced than I. I'm just giving you the point of view from a first time 12V converter that worked...of what could have possibly been done to your tractor.

If you post a couple of pictures and stuff, the gurus will be able to help further.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/ford-vintage-tractors/332700d1376830575-wiring-diagean-800-series-ford-600-800-1-wire-jpg
 

In that bit about polarizing generators...I should have been more clear.

The problem with the generator losing its polarity happens when you disconnect the battery from the system.

You touch the battery's ungrounded terminal to the generator's batt terminal after hooking the battery back up...but before you start and run the tractor again. I have to do that to my 2N, (which is 6V and has a generator) and I keep a little jumper wire in my toolbox for just such a trick.

Again....that's a really fuzzy piece of information that the gurus here know much more about...and it does not apply to alternators...which was what my conversion used.

So...like I said...check for alternator vs generator on your tractor first. I'm not saying that you don't know one from the other. I'm just saying that I myself amd ambiguous about what you have without seeing a picture or make/model number...or something.

If you smoke your alternator/generator, I feel bad. If you smoke your alternator/generator because I steered you in the wrong direction, I feel even worse...so I'm just being really really cautious about that.

If it's an alternator, then I don't think you have to worry about this polarizing procedure.
 
Thanks. I was referring to the kit which had a wiring harness about $150. And a new coil since I was already replacing everything. Please let me know if you know where to get he wiring harness for cheaper. Thanks guys!
 
The problem with the generator losing its polarity happens when you disconnect the battery from the system.

The generator does not generally lose its polarity just by disconnecting the battery. It is usually a result of someone polarizing it the wrong way. It does not hurt to polarize it again even if it is already polarized correctly though.
 
I do my own wiring since there is not all that many wires to do so not at all hard to do with say $25 worth of wire and some tape etc.
 
(quoted from post at 07:02:32 08/02/16)
The problem with the generator losing its polarity happens when you disconnect the battery from the system.

The generator does not generally lose its polarity just by disconnecting the battery. It is usually a result of someone polarizing it the wrong way. It does not hurt to polarize it again even if it is already polarized correctly though.

Thanks for clarifying that, that's why I tried to hedge my language about generators. I just know enough about them to keep my 2N running, and I was told that it's a good idea...but how the generator would actually lose its polarity and whether it applies to other versions and such is beyond me.

And every time this comes up I want to make sure that I mention...not an issue with the alternator that should come with a 12V conversion kit.
 
OK so I missed an earlier post. This tractor seems to be fine other than smoking. Can you clarify the generator polarizing again? I hook the battery back in as a POS GROUND, correct? Before hand what do i do
with the generator? I am not understanding what position the battery is in when I polarize? Do I hook up the pos as pos ground then run a jumper over to the generator... and touch where? And is this why the
generator is smoking after the machine is turned off? Thanks for the help guys!
 
(quoted from post at 22:23:27 08/02/16) OK so I missed an earlier post. This tractor seems to be fine other than smoking. Can you clarify the generator polarizing again? I hook the battery back in as a POS GROUND, correct? Before hand what do i do
with the generator? I am not understanding what position the battery is in when I polarize? Do I hook up the pos as pos ground then run a jumper over to the generator... and touch where? And is this why the
generator is smoking after the machine is turned off? Thanks for the help guys!

In some ways, I'm sorry that I mentioned this. It shouldn't, under normal circumstances, be an issue. It only would be an issue if someone put some oddball generator on your tractor.

There are a few more probable explanations....like the generator's bearings could be going, or some of your fiddling with the wiring/ground has unintentionally given the generator a low resistance path to ground...which would overload its output....or fiddling with the ground polarity has reversed the bias direction on a polarized device (a regulator or diode)...which could maybe overload or heat the generator....especially if that device is inside the "generator".

To answer your question...on my tractor...a 2N with an old " one wire generator"....you do it by momentarily connecting a jumper wire between the battery's non-grounded terminal and the generator's output post.

That's the only type of generator that I'm sure about for this. Even old 2N...9N...8N variants could have a generator with multiple output wires for which the procedure would either be different or not needed.

Before you try something like that, try to eliminate the other causes above. I myself have a friend that has a shop that does nothing but generators, alternators and starters....When I'm in doubt, I unbolt the darn thing and take it to him. I trust him to give me an honest assessment.

If you don't have that option, maybe post a couple pictures of your generator here. These guys have seen it all, if it needs to be polarized, they'll tell you how.
 
(quoted from post at 22:23:27 08/02/16) OK so I missed an earlier post. This tractor seems to be fine other than smoking. Can you clarify the generator polarizing again? I hook the battery back in as a POS GROUND, correct? Before hand what do i do
with the generator? I am not understanding what position the battery is in when I polarize? Do I hook up the pos as pos ground then run a jumper over to the generator... and touch where? And is this why the
generator is smoking after the machine is turned off? Thanks for the help guys!

I looked at my tractor manual this morning to see if its verbage was any more general or would be any help.

Remember, this is for 6V generators....if you have a true 12V generator it might apply and, if you recently switched the polarity of the ground on your tractor, it might apply.

Anyway,

It says that to polarize the generator, it describes two cases.

The first case is when the tractor uses a cutout switch (which I don't think you have...but stranger things have happened...)

In this case, when the tractor is off, momentarily connect the cutout's battery terminal to the generators BATT terminal.


The second case is when the tractor has an external regulator with the generator.

In this case, when the tractor is off, momentarily connect the regulator's BATT terminal to the generator's BATT terminal.


Both of these cases assume that the regulator and/or cutout are properly wired to the ungrounded side of the battery.
 
spdjnky, here is my assessment. You installed battery one way, started tractor, generator output caused vr's cut out contacts to close. If generator was previously polarized for the opposite polarity of new battery installation, this would result in major current and arcing at cut out contacts & possibly welding them permanently closed. If this didn't happen this time, then it most likely did when you reversed the battery the next time. Now with the cut out contacts permanently welded closed, when you turn off engine, the battery is applying much over current back into the generator, thus burning insulation of windings & therefore making smoke. Almost certainly a ruined regulator, probably a ruined generator. It is also very possible that the VR & generator were still 6 volt and PO just stuck a 12v battery in it to sell it. If so, then it would have never worked even if polarization had been correct from the beginning.
 
Thank you everyone! Never been a fan of half arsing things. Ordered the alt kit. Should fix the problem, I assume? Didnt see a coil in the parts list. Do I need a 12v coil?
 
Oh and besides this ^^^^ The original tach free spins. Does it need replaced or is this an issue with the wiring? Im assuming the clock spring is broken?
 
(quoted from post at 01:55:09 08/04/16) Oh and besides this ^^^^ The original tach free spins. Does it need replaced or is this an issue with the wiring? Im assuming the clock spring is broken?

The tach is mechanical, no wiring to have an issue with. Is the cable hooked up to the tach drive on the back of the hydraulic pump?
 

Do you need a 12V coil? Not really. What you need is about 3 Ohms of resistance from your key, through the wiring to the + terminal of the coil, through the coil to the - terminal of the coil and through the distributor points to ground.

You can assume that the wiring is zero ohms, if you're installing it yourself and make good connections with the appropriate gauge of wire.

You can get that 3 Ohms all in the coil, or you can install a resistor between the key and the coil to make up the difference.

Most "6V Coils" will be about 1.5 Ohms, and you'll need to put another 1.5 Ohms inline between the key and the + terminal.

Some "12V Coils" will also be 1.5 Ohms or maybe a little higher, and they'll say something about needing an external resistor on their packaging or on the coil themselves. The specifications for these coils should tell you what resistance is needed. I know (from learning the hard way) that one particular "12V Coil" needs 1.33 Ohms of resistance added in the wiring to be used in a 12V tractor.

Some "12V Coils" will have wording in their packaging, markings or specifications saying that they have an "internal resistor" or "no external resistor needed" or come right out and say that they are 3.0 Ohms. With these, you only need a wire between the key and the + terminal of the coil.

It can be confusing...still is to me, but you are now at least equally confused as I...which I hope is better than where you started.
 
Thank you. FOr the most part I understand. I play around with MIL eliminators a lot LOL. I will just buy the right coil, I have no idea what is on it currently and prefer to just get it fixed. Any idea what
needs 3 ohm? Not really understanding why a normal 12v coil wouldnt work on a new alternator setup.
 
Well there are more then one 12 volt coil. Some are true 12 volt coil and will say right on them NO external resister needed. Then there are the one that are called 12volt coils but will say on them resister needed. And then there are 6 volt coils which can be used if you add a ballast resister like the O'Reilly's auto part part number VR-1 or 2
 
I need a handful of parts. I have the 12v alt kit, the wheel bearings. Can anyone point me to the correct 12v coil, tach and tie rods for this unit? I have messaged the people here selling parts with no
response.
 
(quoted from post at 21:49:31 08/08/16) I need a handful of parts. I have the 12v alt kit, the wheel bearings. Can anyone point me to the correct 12v coil, tach and tie rods for this unit? I have messaged the people here selling parts with no
response.

If I have a moment today, I'm going to see if I can make a couple of sketches to maybe help you sort out the possibilities.

In the meantime, can you check your tractor's wiring to see if someone already put a resistor between the coil and the key? Most of them are white (when new), two terminal devices, usually rectangular, mounted to a plate or some other heatsink and about the size of a grown man's thumb.

I don't trust parts, really, unless I've had them in my own hands, measured the resistance and tried them in a tractor. The descriptions on websites and packaging are THAT bad!

Other guys here have a much broader palette of parts that they've tried themselves.

An original coil from a 6V Ford 600 series tractor, will work, if you have about 1.3-1.5 Ohms of resistance with it (see old's reply above, if you need a resistor.)

A Tractor Supply Co. "12V Coil" will work with no external resistor.

Those are the only two parts that I've used in 12V systems myself.
 

Received the box of parts today. It came with a resistor for the 6v coil. Not sure if thats what I have. May just get the 12v from Tractor supply if I cannot tell.

Anyone have some advice on a battery? Bought a 58D but seems a hair too big. thanks for the help guys!
 

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