3000 No Oil Pressure

KL-VA · Jul 10, 2016

New to me Ford 3000 gas engine tractor was purchased from local NH dealer. Running but engine was noisy. Adjusted valves, painted sheetmetal, rebuilt gauge cluster, and discovered the oil light wire was NOT connected to the sending unit. It was connected to one of the generator terminals. Hmmm, fixed that. When I got it the gen and oil light both came on and went off when engine started. Now, the oil light stays on with the engine running. Removed oil sending unit, and spark plugs, cranked engine. I assume oil should have squirted out the sending unit hole, right? Now I'm suspecting the nice fella that traded this tractor hot-wired the oil light so it would appear to have oil pressure. Next I removed the oil filter and pump stop plug. Who has a 15/16" hex bit? Used a fat 15/16" hex nut and box end wrench to get it out of there. The oil pump drive gear looks good and turns when the engine is cranked. Out of time to mess with it. I guess the next step is to drop the oil pan, remove the oil pump and shaft to see if there is anything obviously wrong down there. Probably pull a couple of caps and see what the bearings look like while I'm down there.

Ultradog MN · Jul 11, 2016

That's a sad story.
I'm trying to think of what it could be.
Those Melling oil pumps are pretty reliable.
Possibly the hex coupler between the drive gear and pump sheared? Or is missing?

Hobo,NC · Jul 11, 2016

I believe I would have a pow wow with the seller :twisted:

It would be rare to see a bad oil pump the pumps ability to suck oil and make pressure can be confirmed you may have to get to it to diagnose it. One thing you said check a few bearings keep in mind it only takes one haft of a bearing set to effect oil pressure so if I were to go that far they all would be checked. One are two that look good does not confirm they all are good BTDT and got the tee-shirt.

Keep us posted on your progress the root cause and the direction you need to go can be determined once you put your thinking cap on.

KL-VA · Jul 11, 2016

(quoted from post at 08:20:36 07/11/16)
I believe I would have a pow wow with the seller :twisted:

It would be rare to see a bad oil pump the pumps ability to suck oil and make pressure can be confirmed you may have to get to it to diagnose it. One thing you said check a few bearings keep in mind it only takes one haft of a bearing set to effect oil pressure so if I were to go that far they all would be checked. One are two that look good does not confirm they all are good BTDT and got the tee-shirt.

Keep us posted on your progress the root cause and the direction you need to go can be determined once you put your thinking cap on.

I intend to have a polite FYI conversation with the NH salesman, but at this point there is no way to prove WHO rewired the oil light (may a thousand chiggers infest his underwear). The dealer took the tractor in-trade, and I bought it "AS IS", so it's my problem now. No telling what I will see when the pan comes off. All I know is the top oil pump shaft is spinning, and it isn't pumping at all. (Stripped shaft? Loose relief valve? Pump fell off?)
KL

Destroked 450 · Jul 11, 2016

Before I tore into it any farther I connect a manual gauge to it and start the engine to see what oil pressure it has.
My 4000SU started have the oil light come on at hot idle making me think I had a oil pressure problem, after connecting a mechanical gauge and running it till it was heated up I found the sending unit was bad

Mike Groom · Jul 11, 2016

You're correct,oil should have squirted out of the sending unit hole unless the passage is blocked.How noisy was the engine? Was it tappet noise or lack of oil to the rockers noise?Oil pumps rarely go bad,I would suspect some thing plugged like the oil pick-up screen or passages from poor maintenance,(lack of oil changes)you can take the valve cover off and run the engine to check for oil to the top end also.How much sludge is in the oil filter?As someone else said put a direct reading gauge in it to verify sender/gauge fault.

souNdguy · Jul 11, 2016

there is 'as is' and then there is deception by fraud.

hotwiring the oil pressure gauge to show oil pressure IMHO is fraud.

You bought it showing oil pressure.

I would sure have a talk about that.

KL-VA · Jul 11, 2016

This engine may have already been damaged by running with no oil pressure. I'm not going to put the spark plugs back in and start it up until it will push some oil out the hole where the sending unit goes. Cranking with the spark plugs out should be plenty fast enough to see some oil flow. There is less risk of damage if I don't let it make compression. This engine will definitely have an oil gauge as well as a light when I'm ready to run it again. The engine had just been serviced, so it has a brand new oil filter. The oil on the dipstick looks fresh out of the can. Most of the engine rattle seemed to be valve train. That is why I adjusted the valves while the sheet metal was off to be straightened a bit and refinished. There was no loud knocking like a spun bearing would make. When I get the oil pan off, the best evidence of previous poor maintenance will be what I see in the bottom. I've seen some so bad we had to poke a hole thru the sludge with a stick to get any oil to run out. Hope that isn't the case with this one.

Destroked 450 · Jul 11, 2016

About half the oil in the filter drains back into the engine so normally it takes 2-5 seconds from when the engine starts till the oil light goes out, this is on top of cranking time .
When cranking without spark plugs you need to crank it long enough to fill the filter or take the filter off then crank to see if oil is getting to the filter.
I've seen a few worn oil pumps but the only one I ever seen fail was my neighbors 3000 when he hit a stump bending the pan and breaking the pump off .

Hobo,NC · Jul 11, 2016

Looks like you know what you are doing

If there is no oil out the sender hole and none being squirted out with the filter removed installing a master OP gauge would be useless... Even cranking with the starter OP can be made VERY EZ... If you can not make OP with the starter and the OP IS BEING DRIVEN the first place to check is the suction side of the pump as you have found out in your past experience.

I ran into one I thought the OP was being driven but it was not. It got pass me 2 times but not the third time.

Texasmark1 · Jul 12, 2016

I bought a '60's 4 cyl. 4000 gasser non running once for a song and no oil pressure. Figured on the lite side. Figured wrong. No oil pressure because upon tearing down, the mains and rod bearings were shot. At least I didn't get stung on the deal.

KL-VA · Jul 12, 2016

Hopefully I'll get a chance to drain and drop the pan when I get home from work this evening. At least it's a LOT easier to do that on this one than any of my older tractors.
KL

Texasmark1 · Jul 12, 2016

I did an inframe when I bought my 3000. Was really one of the easiest overhauls I have ever done on anything.

KL-VA · Jul 13, 2016

(quoted from post at 22:10:54 07/11/16)
Looks like you know what you are doing If there is no oil out the sender hole and none being squirted out with the filter removed installing a master OP gauge would be useless... Even cranking with the starter OP can be made VERY EZ... If you can not make OP with the starter and the OP IS BEING DRIVEN the first place to check is the suction side of the pump as you have found out in your past experience.

I ran into one I thought the OP was being driven but it was not. It got pass me 2 times but not the third time.

Got the oil pan off and removed the oil pump last night.
<img src="http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e378/laru9779/Ford3000/20160713_004947.jpg"></img> The hex pump shaft is worn almost completely round. The upper drive shaft hex is almost as bad. Even if this happened to get an occasional grip on the intermediate drive shaft, the relief valve was completely rusted up.

Texasmark1 · Jul 13, 2016

So what do you think the condition of the bearings and all are in the engine? Interested in what you find. Going to pop a main and rod journal and
have a look?

Hobo,NC · Jul 13, 2016

I like the way you are going at this... Pix did not show up

KL-VA · Jul 14, 2016

(quoted from post at 21:49:04 07/13/16) So what do you think the condition of the bearings and all are in the engine? Interested in what you find. Going to pop a main and rod journal and
have a look?

While I was under there I checked for any looseness in the rod caps, NONE. There was also no shrapnel from melted bearings in the pan. Once I had the oil pump off, put the pan back on with a couple of bolts to keep bugs from nesting in there. Among other things, the end spacing in the oil pump is at least double the maximum spec. I've got some Plastigauge left over from the last engine. I'm going to check each main and rod bearing while waiting for new oil pump and other parts to be delivered. I might even shove a mike into the cylinder bores to see if they are still round. Cylinders usually wear oval at the bottom of the bores on most engines I've worked on.
KL

KL-VA · Jul 14, 2016

I don't know why that image wouldn't show up. Uploading this time.

KL-VA · Jul 18, 2016

(quoted from post at 21:49:04 07/13/16) So what do you think the condition of the bearings and all are in the engine? Interested in what you find. Going to pop a main and rod journal and
have a look?

The rod and main bearings looked good and Plastigauge said 0.003" to 0.0035". Max is 0.004". They may be a bit loose, but within spec. Replaced the pump and both drive shaft pieces. Installed a tee for the oil pressure sending unit and a gauge, left the oil filter off, cranked, and almost immediately got a pint of oil out the side. Replaced the oil filter, and cranked again until the oil light went of and the gauge showed pressure. Installed the spark plugs, turned the gas on, fired it up, and went for a ride. It won't idle smooth. Looks like the carb hasn't been cleaned in, forever. I got it down to 1000 RPM and the oil gauge was showing between 55 and 60 PSI. I think the oil problem is fixed.

3000 No Oil Pressure

KL-VA

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Ultradog MN

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Hobo,NC

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Destroked 450

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