Finally started stubborn diesel tractor.

rodneumann

New User
For several weeks I could not get my 3000 series 1966 Ford 3 cyl diesel tractor to start. It would not fire a lick. I had been running it for many hours before I left it in the field and then followed by days of rain.

So weeks later I went to start it and it acted like it was out of fuel. It wasn't but I added 5 gallons to a few gallons that were in the tank. I figured a slow leak caused the fuel bowls to leak down...it had sat up about 4 weeks. Or maybe since we had some hard rains...maybe water in the fuel? I drained some fuel from the fuel bowls and got a little crud, but then it was clean. And even though I had no air bubbles weeping from cracked fittings, but rather just good fuel at every place I cracked open, including injector ports on top of the fuel pump body, it wouldn't fire one hit. Zero! A little ether at the nostrils of the air cleaner stack only caused a little bit faster cranking but it wasn't helping draw any diesel through to the injectors it seemed.

Ether sprayed directly into the intake (bad idea) caused such loud detonation I worried I'd caused some damage...so I put the ether away. Don't do that!

I hooked up a battery charger and would intermittently recharge the battery and alternately crank the hell out of it. I had hand pumped the primer lever a lot but when there's no sign of air bubbles, what use is that?

So finally this evening I got it to finally fire! And it started right up finally after hours and hours over a span of two weeks screwing with it. It didn't cough and hesitate hardly at all, it just started (so there must not have been much air in the fuel after all).

I don't know if what I did will apply to anyone else out there, but if it helps then that's good. What I did is: while cranking I just pumped the kill plunger in/out many times rapidly, then followed by pumping the fuel throttle to/fro maximum extent, rapidly, and lo and behold it started running.

What did that do? Was there something stuck inside the fuel pump / injection distributor or something. I had moved the throttle before and had tried pulling and pushing the kill plunger before, but not a vigorous or rapid repetitive motion.

So I hope I remember if this happens again. After totally exhausting the possibilities of non-primed fuel injectors and still will not fire, then go crazy with the throttle and the kill control. Maybe the kill control has nothing to do with it or maybe the throttle had nothing to do with it but it must have dislodged something or I don't know what.

Are there some theories or opinions out there regarding what may have happened to make this action restart my diesel engine.

Isn't there supposed to be some motor oil in somewhere in the injector pump? Maybe it oils the cams or something? Do you put it in from the top where's that big bolt head? Could it be something like that? Low on lubrication in the fuel pump?

By the way, the season is dry hot summer... this was not any "cold" start problem.
 
I've got a 1967 3000 diesel and it died one day because of filters were dirty I thought. After changing them and bleeding everything it would not stay running. I would bleed everything then fire it up it would run a minute and quit. Had several good mechanics tell me its air in the system keep bleeding it. If it had blood I would have bleed it to death! One day I was looking at it trying to figure out what the H@$$ was wrong I wondered what is this round thing on top of the injector pump with a little nut on top. Well I took it off and turned it over and it was a air filter! It had a metal screen in it that was completely stopped up. Well I cleaned it put it back on and fired right up and kept on running! So if anybody has a Simms pump with one of those on it keep it clean. May help somebody to know this.
 
(quoted from post at 07:56:25 06/23/16) I've got a 1967 3000 diesel and it died one day because of filters were dirty I thought. After changing them and bleeding everything it would not stay running. I would bleed everything then fire it up it would run a minute and quit. Had several good mechanics tell me its air in the system keep bleeding it. If it had blood I would have bleed it to death! One day I was looking at it trying to figure out what the H@$$ was wrong I wondered what is this round thing on top of the injector pump with a little nut on top. Well I took it off and turned it over and it was a air filter! It had a metal screen in it that was completely stopped up. Well I cleaned it put it back on and fired right up and kept on running! So if anybody has a Simms pump with one of those on it keep it clean. May help somebody to know this.

The vent on a Simms pump does not affect the diesel flow . there is a drain plug , fill level plug , large fill plug on top . you need to change the pump oil with motor oil when you change the motor oil . the vent is there incase the oil compartments over fills from diesel leaking past the seals , which they all have leakage .your lubricating oil will be deluted with diesel fuel and needs to be serviced if you have the Simms pump .

There is also a bleeder plug on the side of the pump . you bleed the filter(s) , bleed the pump , then bleed the line at the injector . if you do not bleed the pump it will still pump some fuel out of the open line at the injector because the is NO pressure . when you connect the line it must build up 1500 psi to get past the injector , it will not do this if there is any air in the pump .it does not matter where the air is between the pump and injector , even a small bubble trapped in the pump will compress and keep it from building up enough pressure .
 
(quoted from post at 05:12:12 06/23/16)
Maybe you just finally got enough charge in the battery to crank it fast enough to start.
?? Huh? I didn't say anything about cranking speed was suddenly faster when I got it started. It was always fast cranking (or I would have said otherwise). I went out to try to start it just about every night for almost two weeks. Cranked it for several seconds at a time. Then I let the starter cool and I had a battery charger on it full time. So... any ideas what might be happening inside the fuel distributor / fuel pump body? That's where it seemed to have had some kind of a hang up (vis a vis my jacking around with the throttle and kill controls). But thanks for your input.
 
(quoted from post at 08:11:39 06/23/16) Save some hassle and just pull start it next time.
I would have probably tried that next, but that's a heck of a hassle in itself to tow a tractor around in my field. In fact, if I have this problem again, and all I have to do is pump the throttle while cranking... hey, that's not much hassle at all. Still hoping someone can tell me how jacking around with the kill or throttle will dislodge some hangup inside the fuel pump / fuel distributor device.
 
Does anybody know if when you have an airlock (if that is an appropriate word for air in the fuel pump) problem, it is better to crank with the throttle closed, throttle full open, or throttle turned up a tad? I hope that's not a stupid question.

I normally crank, starting with the throttle closed, and only add throttle when I hear it starting to fire, which normally is right away when I start cranking. So maybe I am doing something dumb trying to start a tractor with a closed or nearly closed throttle when I know I'm having fuel delivery problems. Maybe most you tractor old hands would naturally pump the throttle while cranking when having problems starting (??), just like it is natural to pump the accelerator pedal in a car (at least the old carbureted types) when it is hard starting.

While I was having this problem, most the time I was standing on the ground, stretching my hand around to the starter key and the other hand was busy with a wrench, cracking a fuel fitting open/closed. Maybe if I had jumped into the driver's seat, I would have naturally pumped the throttle with one hand while turning the key with the other, and I would have reached nirvana much sooner.
 
(quoted from post at 20:46:28 06/23/16) Does anybody know if when you have an airlock (if that is an appropriate word for air in the fuel pump) problem, it is better to crank with the throttle closed, throttle full open, or throttle turned up a tad? I hope that's not a stupid question.

I normally crank, starting with the throttle closed, and only add throttle when I hear it starting to fire, which normally is right away when I start cranking. So maybe I am doing something dumb trying to start a tractor with a closed or nearly closed throttle when I know I'm having fuel delivery problems. Maybe most you tractor old hands would naturally pump the throttle while cranking when having problems starting (??), just like it is natural to pump the accelerator pedal in a car (at least the old carbureted types) when it is hard starting.

While I was having this problem, most the time I was standing on the ground, stretching my hand around to the starter key and the other hand was busy with a wrench, cracking a fuel fitting open/closed. Maybe if I had jumped into the driver's seat, I would have naturally pumped the throttle with one hand while turning the key with the other, and I would have reached nirvana much sooner.

Sorry to have offended you in offering a suggestion that you are sure is not a possibility. As you go forward and ask for help here, you may or may not eventually notice that guys will offer different possible reasons for your problem. Now and then one will be hare brained, but most suggestions are based on either years of experience with equipment, or with reading others' posts here. Slow cranking is a VERY common cause for a diesel to not start. I have experienced it both with one tractor and with two trucks. One truck had one of two batteries weak, the other truck and the tractor both had weak grounds. While I and others have seen various causes for your problem, I have never seen either here or in real life, that "jacking around" with the controls would have the effects that you are describing. Throttle position will have no effect on getting fuel to the pump, (actually expelling air) because the air will not be affected by throttle position. Once you have the air expelled, 1/3 throttle would be good for starting. Your original post gives no hint to how much charging you were doing vs. cranking. Obviously a minute of cranking is going to need a lot more than a minute of charging. You said that you returned to it and it started right up. The gives the impression that you MAY have had the charger on it for some time. While quick, high rate charges can get a battery charged enough to start the vehicle, it takes an extended low rate charge to bring the charge all the way up. There are still many, many variables here that have not been addressed, and very little history on you or your tractor. Being a first time poster, I have no way of knowing that you would be paying close attention to the cranking speed, and that you would have stated if there was any difference. All of us know that cranking speed diminishes with cranking time. It sounds like your 3000 has an in line Simms pump. These pumps have a cold start button on the side. Your operators manual probably tells you to set the throttle to full, depress the button, then set the throttle to 1/3 while cranking. It sounds to me like you finally got the air out of it, so that the pump could compress the fuel. Just because it started right up that time does not necessarily mean that you have gotten past the root problem.
 
(quoted from post at 05:24:08 06/24/16)
(quoted from post at 20:46:28 06/23/16) Does anybody know if when you have an airlock (if that is an appropriate word for air in the fuel pump) problem, it is better to crank with the throttle closed, throttle full open, or throttle turned up a tad? I hope that's not a stupid question.

I normally crank, starting with the throttle closed, and only add throttle when I hear it starting to fire, which normally is right away when I start cranking. So maybe I am doing something dumb trying to start a tractor with a closed or nearly closed throttle when I know I'm having fuel delivery problems. Maybe most you tractor old hands would naturally pump the throttle while cranking when having problems starting (??), just like it is natural to pump the accelerator pedal in a car (at least the old carbureted types) when it is hard starting.

While I was having this problem, most the time I was standing on the ground, stretching my hand around to the starter key and the other hand was busy with a wrench, cracking a fuel fitting open/closed. Maybe if I had jumped into the driver's seat, I would have naturally pumped the throttle with one hand while turning the key with the other, and I would have reached nirvana much sooner.

Sorry to have offended you in offering a suggestion that you are sure is not a possibility. As you go forward and ask for help here, you may or may not eventually notice that guys will offer different possible reasons for your problem. Now and then one will be hare brained, but most suggestions are based on either years of experience with equipment, or with reading others' posts here. Slow cranking is a VERY common cause for a diesel to not start. I have experienced it both with one tractor and with two trucks. One truck had one of two batteries weak, the other truck and the tractor both had weak grounds. While I and others have seen various causes for your problem, I have never seen either here or in real life, that "jacking around" with the controls would have the effects that you are describing. Throttle position will have no effect on getting fuel to the pump, (actually expelling air) because the air will not be affected by throttle position. Once you have the air expelled, 1/3 throttle would be good for starting. Your original post gives no hint to how much charging you were doing vs. cranking. Obviously a minute of cranking is going to need a lot more than a minute of charging. You said that you returned to it and it started right up. The gives the impression that you MAY have had the charger on it for some time. While quick, high rate charges can get a battery charged enough to start the vehicle, it takes an extended low rate charge to bring the charge all the way up. There are still many, many variables here that have not been addressed, and very little history on you or your tractor. Being a first time poster, I have no way of knowing that you would be paying close attention to the cranking speed, and that you would have stated if there was any difference. All of us know that cranking speed diminishes with cranking time. It sounds like your 3000 has an in line Simms pump. These pumps have a cold start button on the side. Your operators manual probably tells you to set the throttle to full, depress the button, then set the throttle to 1/3 while cranking. It sounds to me like you finally got the air out of it, so that the pump could compress the fuel. Just because it started right up that time does not necessarily mean that you have gotten past the root problem.
Thanks for your thorough reply. I didn't know why you came back with crank speed, but I see now... I suppose I thought I had described sufficiently that I had spent days trying to start it (like each evening) and had the charger on it the whole time. I also paid attention to duty cycle... I know you can potentially overheat the starter by cranking without long cool downs.. .and also long recharges. But you don't know if I'm a dummy or not. And with tractors, I am close to being pretty ignorant. I don't know what a Simms pump is. I'll have to see if I have some info on that. And you answered my question about throttle jockeying and position on start. I was pretty sure it had helped dislodge some air. So I am still not sure why it didn't fire ONCE in days and days of sessions with it and then suddenly started with hardly a cough when I jacked vigorously with the controls (I'm still superstitious about it and will probably try it from now on ). Regarding battery charge and crank speed, that was the same high speed cranking every session...so I can see why slow cranking could be the problem, but not in this case. OK, so next I need to learn about how this fuel pump and fuel distributor works... it is to me just a "black box" with only my guesses about the workings inside.
 
Forgive me if this sounds dumb, but have you checked to see if your shutoff knob/cable is functioning properly? Pull shutoff knob out, then check to make sure shutoff arm, at injector pump, is pulled back. Now, push knob in and check to be sure arm at injector pump has moved clear ahead to run position.
Sometimes the cable housing will slip in the clamp at the pump, and sometimes the cable will kink up, between the housing and arm,without moving the shutoff arm adequately when the knob is pushed in.
HTH, Dave
 
If your motor is tired and set for weeks you may not be building up enough compression to start . Use the ether in the air stack once you get any air out of the fuel system if it still will not start . Pulling it would be better that ether but the starter may be too slow to build up compression if it is losing it past the rings .

Do you have an FO-31 ? My dad had an automotive machine shop and a few full time mechanics at his salvage yard when I was growing up as a kid . I can figure out the problem eventually , especially with help from these guys , but after getting my FO-31 I found a lot of useful info that along with advise gets me straight to the kill instead of getting frustrated running around the block eight times . A picture with an arrow pointing to the bleed screw on the pump takes all of the guessing away .
 
(quoted from post at 06:10:21 06/25/16) Forgive me if this sounds dumb, but have you checked to see if your shutoff knob/cable is functioning properly? Pull shutoff knob out, then check to make sure shutoff arm, at injector pump, is pulled back. Now, push knob in and check to be sure arm at injector pump has moved clear ahead to run position.
Sometimes the cable housing will slip in the clamp at the pump, and sometimes the cable will kink up, between the housing and arm,without moving the shutoff arm adequately when the knob is pushed in.
HTH, Dave
That's not dumb to check that... I would have been dumb if I hadn't checked that. In fact it was one of the first things I checked was to make sure that the kill cable was freely activating the lever on the fuel block. BUT... that's essentially what the problem was... it was stuck in KILL [u:8cb91aecd2]internally[/u:8cb91aecd2].

It happened again today...it didn't start right up as it usually does. So I tried jacking the kill control a few times again, and that made it start.

I got a tip from my local Ford tractor guru a couple days ago. He had been too busy mowing and making hay and didn't answer my many calls or he would have set me straight while I was in the midst of my struggles. I ran into him at the local store and told him how I had tried to start the tractor and finally got it going by jacking the throttle and kill control. He said it had to be the kill control. He said there's a "rack" that the cable pulls, that chokes off fuel in the Sims. When you push the control in, it does not push the rack back... it relies upon an internal spring to return it. So probably the rack was stuck in the kill position. Someone mentioned in this thread to keep the Sims clean. That sounds like good advice. I'm not likely to be breaking it open any time soon if not necessary, though.

But my tractor guru told me that if I opened up the Sims, I could spray a little WD40 in, and always keep some conditioner in the tank (which I already do).

But the best tip I got from him is this: Cut the engine by pulling the kill control (of course), but then push it back in so it is ready to start next time. That takes the tension off the return spring and makes it less likely that the rack will stick in the OFF position, inside the Sims. Sounds simple and good idea to me.

So I'm starting that habit starting TODAY.
 

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