hot exhaust on Ford 960

grandpa Love

Well-known Member
First time post - just learning
about old tractors. We have a FORD
640 we use hours at a time and the
exhaust doesn't get hot. But when we
use the FORD 960 the exhaust gets
really hot. Can anyone tell me - is
it a timing issue (retarded) or
something else. 960 runs great, does
not bog down but has a slight
backfire when it is turned off. We
tried to set the timing properly,
but there are no marks on flywheel.
 
I have 2 960 fords. Both of them get hot on the exhausts. Never heard of an exhaust not getting hot.
 
Maybe I should clarify. The 640 gets hot but the 960 gets much hotter after a short time. Didn't know if it was because it's a bigger motor or maybe something was off making manifold so hot. Also what about the small backfire when you shut down? I pull throttle to idle for about 30 seconds before I turn off. Thanks for any input
 
Lean fuel/air mixture will cause them to run hot.
Too lean will also cause them to pop when you shut them off. Try giving it a bit more fuel and see what that does.
Maybe timing too. You should put a timing light on it and see what it is.
 
yes ,badly retarded timing will get the exhaust very hot.
Make sure your advance mechanism in the distributor is working.
Very common for rust to stick em.
Timing marks, also a yes that they can be very hard to find.
Can't count the number of times I've used a few choice words and..."There ain't no marks"
Bringing number 1 up to TDC on the compression stroke and some careful cleaning and the right light will usually find them.
Gotta find em, running the rpms up with the timing light on to set the total advance at the proper rpm is really important.
Just my opinion, but with the engine roaring, and the plow in the ground......That's where I want my total timing to be exactly right.
 
(quoted from post at 08:28:34 05/30/16) yes ,badly retarded timing will get the exhaust very hot.
Make sure your advance mechanism in the distributor is working.
Very common for rust to stick em.
Timing marks, also a yes that they can be very hard to find.
Can't count the number of times I've used a few choice words and..."There ain't no marks"
Bringing number 1 up to TDC on the compression stroke and some careful cleaning and the right light will usually find them.
Gotta find em, running the rpms up with the timing light on to set the total advance at the proper rpm is really important.
Just my opinion, but with the engine roaring, and the plow in the ground......That's where I want my total timing to be exactly right.
etard it enough and can make manifold cherry red
Btdt
 
Set the static ignition timing to 4 degrees BTDC at 450 RPM or less and verify the centrifugal advance mechanism if functioning properly.

There ARE timing marks on the flywheel. You simply have not found them yet. You may need to clean the dirt and oil from the flywheel to find the marks. Mark the 4 degree BTDC mark with white paint, etc. once found.

Dean
 
So.... I'm not sure what centrifugal advance is? Also I'm thinking flywheel marks easier to see if I remove starter? Tractor pulls a 2 bottom plow no problem runs smooth. Maybe we are close to right?
 
Centrifugal advance is the weights, springs, and cams in the bottom of the distributor. A two bottom plow isn't much of a load for a 960. My Jubilee can handle that. 960's were sold as a 3-4 bottom capacity tractor.
 
Bell housing should have a little window sort of thing on it and you simply open the window to see the timing marks.
 
No you are not close enough. The timing is retarded.

Regardless of what you may have been told by whomever, it is not possible to properly set ignition timinig "by ear."

Remove or open the timing mark inspection cover on the right side of the engine below the hydraulic pump.

With the engine idling, use a small paint brush or other suitable brush and solvent (I have an abundance of common sense and use gasoline because it works better than anything else) to clean the flywheel in order to find the timing marks. Once you have found the marks, mark the 4 degree BTDC mark (I use a model brush and white paint) chalk, etc.

Having found and marked the 4 degree BTDC timing mark, use your timing light to set the timing with the engine idling at 450 RPM or less. If you do not have a timing light, post back for static timing procedures.

Most likely this will solve your problem. If it does not, the centrifugal (mechanical) spark advance has likely failed. Regardless of previous posts, your 960 engine has no vacuum advance system. You will need a timing light to diagnose this unless you feel competent to remove and disassemble the distributor, which will likely be necessary to repair such failure.

Resolving your problem is rather straight forward but it should not be ignored. Continual us of your tractor with severely retarded timing will result in other, more serious issues.

Dean
 
At this point I don't have a timing light. Thanks to Dean (and all others) who have had input on this. Dean said if I don't have a light post back for static timing procedure. I would love to know how. Even though I think I'm gonna go buy a timing light. Thanks again
 
Looking back in my memory (scary enough) I believe that when I attempted to set the timing I got cylinder #1 to the top and then let it go down a little. Thinking this would be close. I believe after reading all the answers to my issue I'm way off! Gotta work next 2 days so thursday is the day to fix this. Thanks to all.if Dean would be so kind as to tell me how to do timing with out a light I would love to know. But will end up with a timing light. Just can't soak up enough info on these awesome old tractors.
 
Properly adjust the ignition points to .025".

Rotate the engine until the timing indicator pointer is aligned with the 4 degree BTDC mark with #1 cylinder on the compression stroke (rotor pointing toward #1 plug wire tower).

Remove the spark plug wire from #1 cylinder spark plug and connect it to a spare spark plug which is resting upon a grounded surface so that you can see the plug gap.

Loosen the distributor clamp and rotate it in the direction that the rotor turns when the engine is running until the points are closed.

Turn on the ignition switch.

Slowly rotate the distributor in the direction opposite that that the rotor turns until the spark plug sparks.

Tighten the distributor clamp.

This will likely solve your problem. If it does not, you have mechanical advance issues.

Dean
 
Sorry I have to disagree on the timing thing but it is not something a novice can do. I have been doing it for decades and so for never had any problems doing so and when check with a light I am always very close but as i said not a thing a novice can do. But I also learned to do it for things most people never do
 
(quoted from post at 00:17:53 05/31/16) Sorry I have to disagree on the timing thing but it is not something a novice can do. I have been doing it for decades and so for never had any problems doing so and when check with a light I am always very close but as i said not a thing a novice can do. But I also learned to do it for things most people never do
ow, that is 'rich'! Dean told him how to do it, but you say no, but fail to tell him how to do it? Dean told him the right way & if you can expand on that or tell him what is wrong with Dean's instructions, please do so. Less than that is really less than helpful. P.S. to original poster, just follow Dean's advice, you will be fine.
 
I'm no novice and I can tell you that it is NOT possible to properly set ignition by ear.

Dean
 
I'm no novice either but I have and do set timing by ear and have for decades and I know many other guys who do it the same as I do and we never have any problems. Matter of fact my 1980 Chev pickup is set that way and I get 17MPG which is very good for a 350 of that year
 
Quick question. Dean said rotate engine until timing indicator point......what is that? Where is that? Thanks for any help
 
One more dumb question. Ha ha. How do you know if you are on compression stroke or exhaust stroke? Once we figure this out we will be able to get it fixed. We already did a carb rebuild. Was missing parts in there. Tractor runs great just the really hot exhaust bothers me
 

On compression stroke the rotor button will be pointed toward the number one spark plug post on the cap, If the engine is on the exhaust stroke the rotor button will be 180 degree off pointing toward the number four spark plug post on the cap.
You can also pull the number one spark plug and cover the hole with your finger, then rotate the engine until you fill pressure against your finger or air pushing out past your finger. This will be the compression stroke.

I like using the rotor button method if the dist hasn't been pulled and needs reinstalled.
 
(quoted from post at 09:29:49 06/02/16) One more dumb question. Ha ha. How do you know if you are on compression stroke or exhaust stroke? Once we figure this out we will be able to get it fixed. We already did a carb rebuild. Was missing parts in there. Tractor runs great just the really hot exhaust bothers me
ith #1 spark plug removed & thumb covering hole that it was removed from, turn engine until you feel air pressure trying to blow thumb off hole.....that is compression stroke. see picture:this is NAA , but same location on your engine. Just below hydraulic pump.
 
found marks on flywheel.Set distributor turned key.
Moved dist until plug sparked. Was off very little.
Plug gap was way off. 40 on 3 almost closed on #4.
Wife putting starter on. Then fire it up.
 
(quoted from post at 12:29:57 06/02/16) found marks on flywheel.Set distributor turned key.
Moved dist until plug sparked. Was off very little.
Plug gap was way off. 40 on 3 almost closed on #4.
Wife putting starter on. Then fire it up.
hat covers static advance setting, but without a timing light you will not know whether the centrifugal advance is functioning or not. If not, it will be running at that static advance, even at full throttle and that will be severely retarded from where it should be running.
If no timing light is available and over heating continues, you can try setting static advance to about 20 degrees and see if that cools it off. Sometimes they won't start when set that high & if not try 15 degrees.
 
Fired it up. Drove around 8-10 min.
Exhaust manifold is still hotter
than it gets on our 640. But cooler
than it has been. Maybe more
horsepower -more heat? Some black
smoke but adjusting on carb -getting
better. No backfire when we shut it
off. That's a first. Thanks to
everyone who helped on this.
 
Great news. Worked tractor for hour or more this afternoon. Pulled down a fence, snatched out posts. And drug some bushes out by the roots. Tractor stayed a comfortable temp! Manifold never got crazy hot like it has. Still blows black smoke when you give it throttle. Dean's info was spot on and easy to follow. Thank you so much. Glad knowledgeable folks are willing to share. I attempted to include a photo of my wife driving it
 
Bought a timing light today. Flashing light seems to jump around. 90% of the time it flashes right on the 4 btdc mark. Also when the throttle is advanced the white paint line disappeared. I assume that means the mechanical advance is working. The dust cap in the dist is broke (missing a piece) is that an issue? New plugs last week-end, used tractor couple hours and plugs are black powdery sooty. When we rebuilt carb the NAPA kit didn't include the main needle,mine was in decent shape but was pitted some. Dude at Napa said to sand it lightly and it's fine. Any thoughts on that? Tractor smokes a bit burns your eyes while hooking up equipment. Belches black smoke when you give it throttle. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
One other thing. Put new gauges in today (old ones didn't work) oil pressure works now. Temp gauge barely moved after 30 min. What is "normal" temp? And then the amp meter just sorta jitters around 0. Is that normal? What's it supposed to read? Thanks in advance
 
My tractors that I have had now and in the past usually run around 180-195F on the temperature. It sounds like your gauge is faulty and will need to be replaced. Most fords usually use a 2" opening in the dash. Unless you have the newer dash and then it is merely a sending unit with a attached wire that simply unplugs.
 
Black smoke from the exhaust and sooty plugs means your
tractor is running too rich. Carb needs adjusting most likely.

"Dude at NAPA" may not have ever seen a carb. Or points.
Most things are fuel injected and electronic ignition these days.
That kit apparently did not contain much. Usually even the
cheapest of carb kits come with a new adjusting needle.
Unless it's a kit for a Zenith carb.
What make/model carb do you have?
That needle's not likely your tractor's current issue though.

Normal temp is dependent on your thermostat. 180 on mine.
After 30 minutes it definitely should have moved if working.

Is your tractor still 6V or converted to 12V?
Either way, if the battery is fully charge the charging system
does not need to charge it so yes, the needle should hover
around zero. Immediately after starting the gauge should
indicate a charge and if you turn on the key or the lights
with the engine off it should indicate a discharge.
 

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