Ford 860 (hopefully) Minor Hydraulic Issues

Hello Everyone,
I got my grandfather's 1955 Ford 860 in December so I'm not even close to being an authority yet.

I've been having some minor issues with the 3-point hydraulics. Hopefully it's something simple like an adjustment but I know the members of this forum will steer me in the right direction.

Here are the issues:

1.) The lift arms don't begin to raise until the hydraulic touch control lever is only a few inches from the top stop.

2.) The lift arms don't move at all when constant draft control lever is vertical (engaged). It also takes a good amount of force to move the draft / implement control lever but then it suddenly snaps into place.

3.) When lifting my 4' bush hog or my boom pole, they don't seem go as high as I think they should (not that I know how high they should go but you know what I mean). At the highest point, the tail-wheel of the bush hog will only be a few inches off the ground.

4.) A small amount of hydraulic fluid seems to be leaking from where the pump attaches to the tractor. The fluid runs down the side and drips slowly from the bottom.

I understand that maybe I don't really have a problem and that everything is operating fine for the age of the tractor. I am able to use the tractor for what I need I just wanted to know if something is wrong. I'm using the proper fluid that meets 134 specs.

Any ideas, suggestions, or questions? Thanks for reading!

Mike

likley many issues.

cam pin worn.

lift linkage needs adjustment.

the leak at the pump could be many things. need to find out if it is the orings at the plumbing..

Thanks for the reply, souNdguy.

If my cam pin is warn, what are my options?

Do you know of website that outlines the procedure for adjusting the lift linkage or would it be explained in the Shop Manual?

Is the slow hydraulic leak a cause for concern? I've read posts where people seem to expect a drip of fluid here and a drip of oil there under their old tractors.

Do you have any recommendations for a kit or kits full of various sizes of Ford o-rings? Thanks!

Michael

The cam follower pin is replaceable. The Ford Service manual tells you how to do all of the adjustments, but it calls for some specialty tools that are no longer available. The I&T FO-20 aftermarket service manual has alternate procedures that do not require the special tools. If the cam that the follower pin rides on is worn, you may need to build it back up with a welder and then grind it back smooth to its original profile.

Thanks Sean,
I hope it doesn't come to welding and grinding. I read another post where someone said you could have a custom bushing made to "take up most of the slack" caused by the wear. I'm not sure if the same fix would apply to my situation though.

When the lift arms are raised to the maximum height, do you know approximately how many inches they should be off the ground for a Ford 800 series tractor?

Also, should I be able to lift the arms in constant draft "mode"? Thanks!

Mike

It appeared to me when I had my lift cover off that the .250 cam follower pin could be sleeved with a roll pin having an i.d. close to .250. The increased diameter of the roll pin would help compensate for wear to the cam itself. It should last quite a while and would be easy to renew. A bit of local time would ensure it stayed in place.

lol I mean "loc tite "

I've got three thoughts here.

Your lift height problems are likely one of two things.

1. Worn cam follower pin (most likely). - Replace the pin, it is press fit into the arm. Just press it out and press a new one in. Get creative on how to do that.

2. Out of adjustment linkage. See I&T manual for adjustment procedure.

On you leakage at the pump. Is it leaking from where the pump mounts to the engine. If yes, then it is engine oil leaking. Just remove the pump and replace the gasket.

Post back if you need help removing the top cover.

Thanks for the info Kurt.

I found the Ford I&T FO-20 manual that I would need for my tractor. I already have a reproduction of the original Ford 1955-1960 Shop Manual. Are you guys saying that the linkage adjustment procedure from the I&T manual is better than the Ford manual and doesn't require special tools?

You also said to post back if I needed help removing the top cover so I assume that means there's a trick to it? It's not just a simple "remove these bolts and lift" type of thing? Will I need to replace a gasket after removing the cover?

Sorry if it seems like I'm asking a lot of questions, I just want to be sure. Only 2 more (for now):

When the lift arms are raised to the maximum height, does anyone know approximately how many inches they should be off the ground for a Ford 800 series tractor?

Should I be able to lift the arms in constant draft "mode"?

Thanks!

Mike

The original Ford service manual procedure uses special Nuday tools that are no longer available and used ones are hard to find. So that leave no choice but to use the I&T procedure.

Removing the top cover is straight forward, it is just heavy. A two man job, or use an engine hoist. Lots of o-rings involved. If you order the top cover gasket set from YT it will come with all the needed o-rings. Also it helps to number the bolts and locations using a Sharpie. Sure helps in getting them back in the right position. One bolt is under the 3 X 5" accessory plate. Remove the plate to get to it.

One suggestion. On the piston, I prefer the CNH o-ring and especially the back up washer. Just my personal preference.

To get the piston out of the cylinder just apply some compressed air with a rubber tipped air gun (low pressure). Point the piston down to a work bench top. If you point it up or sideways, you will launch the piston and probably bounce it off something important like you head (don't ask how I now this).

If you get a leather back up washer, soak it in hot water before you put it on. Make it a lot easier.

Ask away if you have questions, I probably forgot something

Hope that helps.

Kurt,
That is a LOT of great info, thanks! I need to do all of that to only make adjustments to the linkage or were you explaining how to get to the cam pin?

I remember reading something that said some adjustments could be made by removing the small circle plate on the side to access the internal touch control linkage, is that true?

No one has been able to answer my question about the constant draft control setting. When draft is engaged, should I be able raise and lower the lift arms using the touch control lever?

Thanks.

Mike

Sorry to confuse you Mike. Most of us replace the piston o-ring and back-up washer when we take the top cover off. Your choice.

You might be able to reach the control valve adjustment through the left side PTO opening. I know you can see it, but I've never tried to get two wrenches in there. Not much room and I have big hands. Just to work in that area you would need to remove the fender and tire. Easier to remove the top cover.

Also, I usually pull the linkage to press out the cam follower pin. But you can do it in place. I usually use a vice, bolt and deep socket to get it out. I press the new pin in with vice. Just my choice. You might find out that once the new pin is in place you do not need to adjust the linkage. But you do need to check it just to be sure.

You might want to seek out Zane Sherman. He sells a nice kit for adjusting the top cover linkage. Includes gauges, cam pin, and instructions. Great advise too.

I'm not sure about draft control. I don't use it and have little experience. Maybe some else with stop by. If I remember correctly, you get erratic movement from the lift arms when you move the touch control lever. Especially without a implement in place.

Thanks again, Kurt!

I have a full time job and a 2 year old so in about 16 years I should have enough spare time to do everything you've explained.

You guys are the experts but I'm hoping it ends up being something a little less involved. For example, could my symptoms be caused by something simple like air in the system?

My dad rebuilt the engine just to give me the tractor. However, he was incorrectly told to use SAE 90 in the transmission, hydraulics, & rear differential. Luckily the tractor wasn't used for anything between the fluid fill and when I got it so I changed the hydraulic fluid to one that meets the 134 spec. Is it possible that there's some SAE 90 stuck in the system causing these issues?

I guess the most important question is how far should the lift arms raise when measured from the ground? If it's within' a couple of inches then maybe I don't really have any issues and just wasted everyone's time with my ignorance!

Mike

If the arms are lifting, and not hiccuping or chattering, then there's no air in the system and the 90 weight oil that's left after you changed to the 134 fluid shouldn't be an issue either. Your symptoms definitely point to a worn cam follower pin or out of adjustment control linkage, or both.

I'm with Sean, that 90wt oil won't hurt a bit.

Don't over think this project. You are talking about a week-end project. I could do in an afternoon. Just pull the top cover, turn it over and take a good look at the cam pin and replace it if need be. Check the adjustment per the I&T. If you find something, clean up all the gasket/o-ring surfaces and put it back together.

You may have to prime the pump when you are done, but maybe not.

If you don't find anything wrong, post back. We'll help if we can.

Good Luck.

Kurt,
I found another thread (http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1218671) where you posted this picture of the hydraulic control linkage:



After seeing the picture it makes a lot more sense.

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to share their expertise.

Mike

I'm glad it helped.

The cam follower pin is behind and to the left of the lock nut on the lower right. You can see the cam to the right of the lock nut. I runs behind the linkage.

Sorry I didn't think about posting pictures earlier.

Kurt,
No need to apologize, you've been more than helpful. Hopefully this tread will help many more people having the same issues as me.

As you suggested, I found Zane's site (http://www.bramblett.com/zane/) where he sells the adjustment booklet, feeler gauge, and a replacement cam follower pin for $40.

I'm gonna be honest and say that this repair probably isn't gonna happen until fall or winter but I promise to post my results.

Thanks again for all your help.

Mike