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3 Cylinder Front End Yoke Attachment

C

CTPhil

Member
I finally, after it sat in the driveway for over three years, got a 4100 I had bought for parts running. The previous owner had hit something with the loader really hard and ripped off both mounting blocks where the front end support yokes bolt to the bellhousing. Then he tried to get the sheared out bolts out, unsuccessfully. He must have used heat on one because it is really hard and resists even cobalt drills. I started to grind it out with a carbide burr in a die grinder but had to quit as the burr is dull.

36128.jpg


But I managed to back 2 bolts out with a LH drill and clear all but the one hole, and chase them with a tap. But I only have real confidence in 2 of the empty holes. So my main question is: Can I just drill out the dicey 7/16-14 holes and tap to 1/2-13? Also, any suggestion about that one hole with the bolt still in it?

Thanks!

36129.jpg
 
Never tried helicoil. Mite work. If go 1/2 bolt itll have to be a step stud because the other parts don't drill, plenty hard. If real good with wire welder either nipple or weld nut to it and screw out.
 
(quoted from post at 21:31:31 05/19/16) Never tried helicoil. Mite work. If go 1/2 bolt itll have to be a step stud because the other parts don't drill, plenty hard. If real good with wire welder either nipple or weld nut to it and screw out.
Click to expand...
Good to know about those parts being hard. Maybe helicoil would be the way to go. I'm not too good with a welder. :(
 
I first learned about torching here on this site. Need a real oxy-fed torch. I know O/A will work but I don't know if O/Propane will work. Use a regular welding tip - which has a small flame tip - light and aim it squarely into the hole, get the bolt hot, then carefully add some oxy with the knob. It turns into a mini cutting torch. Got to keep it pointed squarely into the bolt while fiddling with the knob, that can be tricky. Need lots of good full frontal protection on face, arms, everywhere, because that stuff really spits back out of the hole as it's burnt out. May end up trashing the welding tip, too. But it works. I had my doubts, first gave it a try on an old lawn tractor cast iron block that had an exhaust flange bolt broken off in the block. I figured to give it a try because the exhaust also had a pipe thread cut into the port, so if the torch didn't work & ruined the threads, I had a Plan B available. It was a smallish bolt (1/4-20?) and I was surprised that I was able to blow it all out, and didn't hurt the threads. Was really impressed. Here's some overdue thanks to whoever it as who posted it here - I think it was someone who'd even used it to burn out very very small screws in gunsmithing.
 
The poor holes.... yes, just drill them ONE size larger. Don't go to wild because the casting may not have the same thickness on the inside
as what you see outside. So keep it centered and go no more than you must to clean the hole and bottom tap it with the next size tap.

The one with the broken bolt.... the bolt is probably at least grade 5 and mabey grade 8 so drilling will not be easy regardless of what
was done with heat already. I suspect that if you sharpen a GOOD HSS drill of small diameter you will punch a pilot hole through it with
some work. Once you manage that you can drill it larger in steps. It WILL NOT be easy...
I'm not saying don't try and torch it out. I guess I probably would at some point if it absolutely resisted drilling.... and it should work
as the casting is iron and iron won't oxidize with a torch... so it won't cut. Only problem I see with that scenario is that at some point
you will have to clean the hole... and what do you do then? That may be just as difficult to redrill the slag out as it is to just drill it
now, low and SLOW with lots of oil.

Rod
 
I've decided to go the helicoil route. I ordered a kit which should arrive this week. I'll report back. :)
 
I finally got that last bolt out but now a new problem. It looks like the hole is too big for a helicoil. Any opinions on a 5/8" to 7/16" thread insert?


36373.jpg
 
I've done a little looking online, there seem to be thin wall and thick wall inserts. The thin wall require 9/16" threads and the thick wall 5/8". All of the thin wall ones I looked at require special tools, the thick wall ones like in the photo above don't.

So I guess my question comes down to do people here think that there's enough meat in the casting at that spot to go from the original 7/16" to 5/8"? It looks to me like there is, but I'm hoping someone has had experience doing this.
 
Finally got all of my parts. :) 2 original threads, 3 helicoils, and one thread insert and I'm ready to put stuff back together. :)

36627.jpg


36628.jpg
 
It's all back together!

But it doesn't work. :(

No leaks, but I started it up and there is no power assist at all. I added fluid, no help. But I noticed that the filter seems to be a mangled mess. Oil is circulating in the pump housing at least, I don't know if it's going anywhere else.

So I guess my plan is to start out changing the filter, and that doesn't help, swap in another from a non working tractor. I've never been inside a steering pump so some questions:

Does removing the lower pump line drain most of the oil?

Does removing the center bolt through the line banjo allow the canister to pull off?

Thanks!
 
(quoted from post at 09:56:52 06/06/16) It's all back together!

But it doesn't work. :(

No leaks, but I started it up and there is no power assist at all. I added fluid, no help. But I noticed that the filter seems to be a mangled mess. Oil is circulating in the pump housing at least, I don't know if it's going anywhere else.

So I guess my plan is to start out changing the filter, and that doesn't help, swap in another from a non working tractor. I've never been inside a steering pump so some questions:

Does removing the lower pump line drain most of the oil?

Does removing the center bolt through the line banjo allow the canister to pull off?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

That would be a yes and a yes lol
mark the location of the canister before removing
Boss
 
I took the canister off and in the process tore off the fitting on the end where the bolt goes through. The tubing nut just didn't budge. So I had to take the can off my non runner. I replaced the filter and put it back together and no change. The old fluid was like thick milk. Where do I go next? I'm pretty sure I've got the lines from the steering gear to the cylinders on right, but not 100% sure.
 
Thinking that the cylinders are connected correctly does not guarantee that they are. To make sure, disconnect the rod ends of the cylinders from the tie rods and turn the steering wheel with the engine running to see if the cylinders move in the correct directions.
 
(quoted from post at 22:01:23 06/06/16) Thinking that the cylinders are connected correctly does not guarantee that they are. To make sure, disconnect the rod ends of the cylinders from the tie rods and turn the steering wheel with the engine running to see if the cylinders move in the correct directions.
Click to expand...
I did that, and they [b:d29bad1361][i:d29bad1361]weren't[/i:d29bad1361][/b:d29bad1361] going in the correct directions. So I switched the lines on the side that was wrong but now another problem. I wants to steer itself, back and forth, and it takes all of my strength to hold it! It has a mind of it's own. But at least now I know the pump is working and everything is getting fluid under pressure. Any ideas?
 
How much does the steering wheel move up and down when you turn it? It should move up slightly when you turn it in one direction and down slightly when you turn it the other way. The slight up-and-down movement of the steering column is what actuates the control valve, and there is a procedure in the manual for setting the thrust play (amount of up-and-down movement) properly. If my memory serves me correctly it involves tightening down the large nut on top of the upper thrust bearing until just snug and then unscrewing it some fraction of a revolution and then staking it in place, but I don't have a manual handy to get the specifics for you. If you don't have a service manual, you should get one. The I&T FO-41 aftermarket service manual is available for less than $30.00 on many sites on the internet, including this site.

[u:429cdd0efa]I&T FO-41 aftermarket service manual on Yesterday's tractors - $26.95[/u:429cdd0efa]
 
I'll check that. I know there is no excessive up/down, but I never though that there would be too little.
 
It just shows for the first second or so of that video, but it looks to me like the steering wheel is moving up and down quite a bit from the vibrations of the motor, but it may just be the side-to-side movement as it's spinning back and forth combined with the angle of the camera. What happens if you just press down on the wheel and hold it in place and don't allow it to move up or to spin?
 
I forgot to mention that the wheel does go up and down when you turn it. I'll try what you said about holding the wheel down, thanks.
 
I gave it a try, I couldn't move the wheel up or down when it was thrashing. If I forced it off center it would go by itself fully turned to the side it was directed, then if forced back the other way would go by itself. Trying to move it at all feels like fighting the full force of the hydraulics.
 
Any chance a steering cylinder could cause this? One was broken and I swapped one in, but the other wasn't so I left it. I'm at a disadvantage because although the tractor clearly was in a wreck which broke a lot of the steering parts, I have no details of what happened or what the previous owner did while attempting repairs.

If not likely to be a cylinder problem, I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and swap out the steering gear.
 
The problem definitely sounds more likely to be in the steering column/control valve than in the cylinders.
 
Whew, did I ever dodge a bullet!

I had parked my 3610 next to the 4100 yesterday to work on it. I was still having nagging doubts about my having run the lines right, so this morning I took the cowl skirt off of the 3610 and did a side by side comparison of the lines, and [b:14714da85b][i:14714da85b]both[/i:14714da85b][/b:14714da85b] were opposite on the 4100. I had assumed they were right because when I had detached the power assist cylinders they did seem to be doing what they should. Long story short I swapped all of the lines at the control block and it works!
 
So you went from one being backwards to both being backwards. Nice to know what symptoms that created so if anyone else has the same problem in the future we can diagnose it better.
 
(quoted from post at 12:00:06 06/08/16) So you went from one being backwards to both being backwards. Nice to know what symptoms that created so if anyone else has the same problem in the future we can diagnose it better.
Click to expand...
Yes that's exactly what happened. Thank you for all of your help. :)
 
I'm back with an update. :)

I worked on the tractor whenever I had a chance all summer, and finally got it to where I felt it was ready for a local tractor show this weekend. :)

40822.jpg


I still have an unresolved steering issue, I'm thinking the hydraulic control valve on the steering column needs to either be swapped with one from the donor tractor or rebuilt. Can anyone give advice on rebuilding one?
 
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