Ford 4610

Mark65 · May 5, 2016

I have a 4610. I am having problems with my lift. When it is setting on level ground or the front end down it works great, lift my bush hog or my disk. When I start going up a hill the lift will not pick up at all. I install a new clutch and that is all. New filter and fluids. I am lost.

Thank you for any input.

Mark

RodinNS · May 5, 2016

I would wager that there is a bad o-ring or quad ring in the suction tube manifold joint between the filter and pump. When you head up grade
the oil drains away sufficiently that the pump loses prime... May also be somewhat low on oil depending on what and where you filled it...

Rod

Mark65 · May 6, 2016

(quoted from post at 15:38:29 05/05/16) I would wager that there is a bad o-ring or quad ring in the suction tube manifold joint between the filter and pump. When you head up grade
the oil drains away sufficiently that the pump loses prime... May also be somewhat low on oil depending on what and where you filled it...

Rod

Rod, thank you. I will pull the pump and rebuild it.

Mark

RodinNS · May 6, 2016

The pumps are not really rebuildable other than to change the seals... if those are even available. What I am talking about is an o-ring in
the suction manifold to the pump. I think you will probably need to do a rear split on the tractor to access that.

Just to be sure tho..... you are absolutely certain that the oil level is up to the level plug by the right foot board? Or does it have a
stick to left of the seat? Just be doubly sure the oil level is correct because this problem is directly indicative of severely low oil
level. I know you said you changed it, etc.......... but it's not the first time I've seen folks confuse the hydraulics with the transmission
oil on those tractors.
That is a gimme compared to a rear split to repair that tube.

Rod

Mark65 · May 7, 2016

Rod,
It has a dip stick. I have it filled to the full now. I tried over filling to see if it would fix the problem, but it did not. So I drained it back down. It started after I replaced the clutch. Just crazy it works fine till going up a hill. about a 15 deg angel and does not want to lift.

Mark

Mark65 · May 7, 2016

(quoted from post at 17:55:14 05/07/16) Rod,
It has a dip stick. I have it filled to the full now. I tried over filling to see if it would fix the problem, but it did not. So I drained it back down. It started after I replaced the clutch. Just crazy it works fine till going up a hill. about a 15 deg angel and does not want to lift. I was told to use Hydraulic fluid in the transmission.

Mark

RodinNS · May 8, 2016

Are you talking about the stick on the transmission or the stick by the PTO lever? Most 3 cylinder 10's didn't have one by the PTO lever...

Rod

Destroked 450 · May 8, 2016

Looks like some 10 series and 30 series came with a dip stick located behind the lift arm rocker shaft on the left side of the rear axle. There are two different dip sticks depending on the transmission and rear axle. Tractors with 8x2 trans without 4x4 use a longer stick so that the axle holds less oil.
The dip stick tube attaches to the suction pipe that the filter mounts to making me wonder if it has the wrong filter or some blockage around the pickup that's causing it to suck air through the dip stick tube if it has one.

OP said problem started after clutch install but had also said he changed filters and oil. There's 3" difference in the length of the dip sticks which equals over three gallon's of oil difference. If it has the wrong stick that could bee another problem.

RodinNS · May 8, 2016

I've never seen that setup. All 3 cylinder 10 series chassis I've seen had a level plug on the right side of the housing. All 30 series
chassis had a stick on the left hand access plate by the foot board... and I can't imagine why that location would change relative to the
transmission option or presence of MFWD. The required oil level in the rear axle would be the same although the required amount to achieve
that level will vary somewhat... Both had sticks in the transmission to check the transmission oil level since 3 cylinder chassis are not
common sump like their big brothers.

Rod

Destroked 450 · May 9, 2016

Looks like 10 series cab tractors had dip sticks, not sure about all open station. The 3930 I have and the 5030 I just finished a transmission replacement on both have dip sticks located near the top of the axle housing behind the lift top rocker shaft. On my older 4000 the rear axle check plug is located on the right side on the oil pump it's self, the 30 series has a flat spot on the pump in the same location but no plug. The oil check plug is located higher up between the pump and control valve, both tractors have synchronized transmissions that use a different rear axle housing than a 8x2 trans two wheel drive tractor has. Parts look up shows two different dip sticks, one for synchro trans and one for non synchro.
Having scrapped the 3930 out to fix the 5030 I'll be using the rest of the components to upgrade and maintain some of the present inventory of tractors on the farm,(4000, 4000SU,4500,5000,5200,6610, non working 671D,881D) so I ordered a dip stick for a non synchro model and will compare them to see if one axle has a higher oil level than the other

Anonymous-0 · May 9, 2016

Hummm.......Mark, it looks like you are gettin plenty of info of all models of tractors, except your 4610. Wish I could give you a real direct answer, myself, as much as I know that you would like one.

Destroked 450 · May 9, 2016

(quoted from post at 08:35:53 05/08/16)
.

OP said problem started after clutch install but had also said he changed filters and oil.

Clutch change wont cause the problem but wrong filter or not enough oil in the rear axle will. The lift and pto on my 4000 will quit if on a steep enough grade, but it's got to be steep like 35-40 degrees

RodinNS · May 9, 2016

Sorry.... but there is no difference between rear axles structurally on any 3 cylinder chassis tractors using the double reduction
planetary axle other than the obvious arpeture opening for the transfer box on the MFWD models and one oddball variant that had ground
drive PTO. Transmission played no role in the axle selection.
What did change was transmission output ratios to accommodate various tire sizes. All double reduction axles used the exact same output
ratios...
The reason for the higher check plug on 10 series axles vs prior models is that the 10 series carried more oil for the larger capacity
hydraulic systems of their time.... but the same level could as easily be run in the 4000 as in the 4610 and indeed the dipstick could be
installed in the access cover if so desired by drilling and tapping the plate in the correct place.

It would make sense that the 10 series 3 cylinder cab tractors had sticks on them given how miserable they were to do anything else on...
but to be honest it's a long time since I looked at one. Most I see are open station.

Rod

Destroked 450 · May 10, 2016

(quoted from post at 20:03:50 05/09/16) Sorry.... but there is no difference between rear axles structurally on any 3 cylinder chassis tractors using the double reduction
planetary axle other than the obvious arpeture opening for the transfer box on the MFWD models and one oddball variant that had ground
drive PTO. Transmission played no role in the axle selection.
What did change was transmission output ratios to accommodate various tire sizes. All double reduction axles used the exact same output
ratios...
The reason for the higher check plug on 10 series axles vs prior models is that the 10 series carried more oil for the larger capacity
hydraulic systems of their time.... but the same level could as easily be run in the 4000 as in the 4610 and indeed the dipstick could be
installed in the access cover if so desired by drilling and tapping the plate in the correct place.

It would make sense that the 10 series 3 cylinder cab tractors had sticks on them given how miserable they were to do anything else on...
but to be honest it's a long time since I looked at one. Most I see are open station.

Rod

I will agree that prier to the 30 series there is no structural difference in 3 cylinder axle housings that I know of or have information on. 30 series axles I was referencing in my prier post are different depending on what transmission the tractor has and if it has MFWD or not on tractors with 8x2 transmission.
Look it up for your self, go to Messick's and look up 4630 transmission section 07U02. It shows the rear axle cover and gears for a single speed pto for the 8x8 and 16x8 transmissions which is nothing like one for a 8x2 trans, then in the next section 07U03 it shows two completely different pto shafts and axle cover plates. One for 8x2 non MFWD and one for 8x2 with MFWD. Transmission does play a role in axle selection along with MFWD.

I don't have any 10 series 3 cylinder tractors in my area to check the plug or dip stick location, I do own a 4 cylinder 10 series (6610) cab tractor and yes it does have a dip stick. I'm not sure where or how it's mounted to the axle housing, but the dip stick HANDLE is located on top of the axle behind the lift top rocker shaft accessed from the back of the tractor and is the same on my 3930 open station tractor.

I'll be picking up the rear axle dip stick I ordered tomorrow for a non synchronized transmission and compare it to the one I have for a synchro trans to see what the difference is.

RodinNS · May 10, 2016

I see the ground drive PTO options, which I noted in the 10 series.... and if you dig a little deeper you find that all axle center
housings for 10 and 30 series tractors supersede to the same number. While there were differences in housings back in the day due to
arpetures, the basic premise that all are structurally interchangeable holds. While you obviously couldn't put a transfer case or ground
drive PTO on an early housing so unequipped, you can install it on the new ones by removing the blank plate...

Also note that 4 cylinder chassis 10 series tractors are an entirely different animal. Different rear end and different transmission
although the ancillary systems layouts are much the same. These tractors ALL had hydraulic/rear axle/transmission dipsticks as they were
common sump. The x600 series were the last to use level plugs and those were found on the back of the rear axle center section above the
drawbar housing.
The 5030 was an oddball in that it used a 4 cylinder 256 engine from the 5610 fitted to the 3 cylinder chassis to fill a spot in the lineup
vacated by the 5610 as the 5640 was a slightly more powerful tractor with a pile more weight.

In the end, none of this discussion is relevant to the original poster's situation where he still has a hydraulic pump in a 4610 that is
somehow pulling air...

Rod

Mark65 · Jun 2, 2016

Sorry I had so family stuff happen. Let get caught up and answer all the questions.

Mark65 · Jun 2, 2016

Rod, The dip stick is on the transmission.

Mark65 · Jun 2, 2016

Thank you. The guy I got the tractor from it ran off the trans fluid. I will check axle fluid next time I am up at my place.

Mark

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