Elenco front end in junk yard

I was in a salvage yard looking for truck parts last weekend. I noticed a small bunch of tractors over in the corner, so I wandered over to inspect. To my surprise I found a Ruff Ford with an Elenco four wheel drive front axle, complete with drive shaft. I'm a John Deere guy and don't know Fords as well, but the tractor also had a diesel engine. I believe it would be in the 641-681 era? There was not many other good parts, other than the 3 point hitch. I went in to attempt to purchase the entire tractor because of the value I assume the Elenco unit to have. I was informed that the complete tractor could not be bought, only parts off it. I then asked for a price on all the parts I could take off the tractor. We're currently in negotiation on prices.
Does this engine have value also being diesel? I guess I haven't ran into any before. ( yet as I said not a Ford tractor Guy) I'm sure the engine is stuck, but it is complete injector pan to Injector pump.
Please advise to my direction. Thanks
 
The Elenco does have some value, but I would not go more than $1,200 for it as it sits. If you get the Elenco, make sure you split the tractor
between the transmission and rear end to get the coupling between the trans and rear end. This coupling has the sprocket on it for the chain
driven case that drives the front axle. Also make sure you get the PTO lever as there is special components for it also as the PTO lever is
relocated from the original position. Tony Jacobs owns the Elenco company today and as a wealth of information and great to talk to. He
may see your post here and reply. Did you take any pictures of the Elenco?
 
(quoted from post at 02:43:26 04/12/16) The Elenco does have some value, but I would not go more than $1,200 for it as it sits. If you get the Elenco, make sure you split the tractor
between the transmission and rear end to get the coupling between the trans and rear end. This coupling has the sprocket on it for the chain
driven case that drives the front axle. Also make sure you get the PTO lever as there is special components for it also as the PTO lever is
relocated from the original position. Tony Jacobs owns the Elenco company today and as a wealth of information and great to talk to. He
may see your post here and reply. Did you take any pictures of the Elenco?[h/quote]
Thank you for the information. You brought up some additional things I would not have thought of. Mainly the internal coupling. I did snap a couple picture of it, but as you know being from Michigan yourself, everything was covered with snow last weekend and the picture really didn't show anything. There almost isn't enough of the tractor left to see identity.
Any thought on the engine having any value being diesel?
 
You said 641-681. That would be the 601 series which means the diesel would be the 144, hard to get parts for, so IMO
worth a parts engine, not much value. The 641 elenco will have a different connector than the 681 because of the SOS
traction disconnect. With the 641 most on them I have seen with elencos, including the two 841 elencos I own have
sherman combos in them, lever on bellhousing left side of tractor, which may have a value of about $500 or so. If it
has a five speed there will be no sherman.
If you do take the elenco make sure you get all the pieces as Michford said. Make sure you also take everything that
you need to engage the pto cause it was moved to a different location.

Kirk
 

I put in a bid for $500.00 last year on an 841 with Elenco. Only about half of the Elenco was there, and the tractor, though it ran needed a major engine overhaul, complete hydraulic rebuild, needed all the sheet metal, needed tires, needed all of the hitch, the hydraulic pump was missing. Another guy bought it for $1,200 and immediately put it up for sale at double that. He claimed that the 1/2 Elenco was worth that much.
 
Should be able to tell what tractor
model it is by the serial number on the
casting, sheet metal or decals mean
nothing
 
A few more things. The tractor more than likely has power steering on it as most that got equipped with Elenco were recommended to be installed on tractors with power steering. If the tractor still has the power steering on it, I would try to get the entire power steering system as well. If you can't get the whole system, can you get the radius rods? The radius rods are also modified with an Elenco system and will already have the alteration done to them. Also make sure you get the internal bracing for the coupler between the trans and rear, and any alteration done to the clutch pedal. I agree with Kirk on the diesel engine, may not be worth messing with.
 
(quoted from post at 09:51:09 04/13/16) A few more things. The tractor more than likely has power steering on it as most that got equipped with Elenco were recommended to be installed on tractors with power steering. If the tractor still has the power steering on it, I would try to get the entire power steering system as well. If you can't get the whole system, can you get the radius rods? The radius rods are also modified with an Elenco system and will already have the alteration done to them. Also make sure you get the internal bracing for the coupler between the trans and rear, and any alteration done to the clutch pedal. I agree with Kirk on, the diesel engine, may not be worth messing with.

Got ya guys,
i wish they would just let me take the whole thing home and take off everything i want, then bring back the carcus. But they we're hearing of that. I'll call them tomorrow for some dealing.
thanks
 
If you have to remove the Elenco yourself in their yard, I would start at $500 for the inconvenience. It sure would be nice to be working in a shop to do the dismantling. Good luck with your dealing. Will you be on the lookout for a Ford tractor for a project to install it on, or are you looking to sell the Elenco if you get it? Does the front axle housing have Elenco cast into it, or does it look more like this?
3-12008.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 19:05:22 04/13/16) If you have to remove the Elenco yourself in their yard, I would start at $500 for the inconvenience. It sure would be nice to be working in a shop to do the dismantling. Good luck with your dealing. Will you be on the lookout for a Ford tractor for a project to install it on, or are you looking to sell the Elenco if you get it? Does the front axle housing have Elenco cast into it, or does it look more like this?
3-12008.jpg

Deal made, I will be heading there Saturday morning to start the removal process and gather all the pcs. you guys have suggested. Yah, pain in the but to split the tractor in the yard and not in the shop. I'm taking a trailer load of stuff with generator, compressor, air tools, jack stands, engine crane, and pile of hand tools.
This one looks very simiular to the one in your picture except does not have the round pipe spacers above the axles.
Not sure what I will be doing with it. Maybe clean it up, inspect, sandblast and paint and sell for the remaining parts I need for a John Deere restoration.
 
If the one you found does not have round tubes above the front axle, how does the front axle mount to the tractor? Does it have triangular plates like this?
Nov2013003_zps54290850.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 20:06:20 04/14/16) If the one you found does not have round tubes above the front axle, how does the front axle mount to the tractor? Does it have triangular plates like this?
Nov2013003_zps54290850.jpg


Well the trip to the salvage yard went well. Better than I could have ever expected. We had all he parts removed in about 2 hrs of work. Not bad for not in the shop with only the tools you remembers to bring. It is not in as good of shape as I had thought or hoped for. The cast axle housing has been broken and welded, as are both of the radius rods. With you guys suggestions, I took the complete front end, radius rods, drive shaft and right angel drive, steering cylinders, Power steering pump from the steering shaft, the drive sprocket coupling from inside the center housing, with triple row chain, and the PTO engagement clutch and the lever with the bulk head fitting that goes thru the side of the cast housing.
I'm guessing the actual front end housing is not the important part. I't appears to be the same Dana unit that I have seen on old 60s 4 wheel drive Chevy trucks and could be substituted, or with some grinding and filler weld would look fine.
Another possible problem, when I turn the drive shaft, the wheels do not drive. I pulled the diff cover off and the ring and pinion and spider gears are fine. The diff is driving the axles, so the problem must be in the universal gears at the wheels. Seems fixable too.
I'm working on file size of pics to upload
 
Glad it went well. The Elenco was originally equipped with a torque limiter that was right behind the front differential on the early models or behind the transfer case on the later models. The torque limiter is a big slip clutch designed to slip at around 450 ft lbs of torque. If the tension was backed off, it may be slipping and not driving. I am looking forward to your pictures.
 
(quoted from post at 06:15:48 04/17/16) Glad it went well. The Elenco was originally equipped with a torque limiter that was right behind the front differential on the early models or behind the transfer case on the later models. The torque limiter is a big slip clutch designed to slip at around 450 ft lbs of torque. If the tension was backed off, it may be slipping and not driving. I am looking forward to your pictures.
This is my first attempt at uploading pics to the forum. We'll see how I did.
In reference to the shaft turns but no wheel movement. Would I rotated the shaft and can the diff cover off I could see all the spider gears rotating and even the axles rotation,

35238.jpg
35239.jpg
35240.jpg
35242.jpg
 

So as we can see, my pictures came in OK and show the setup pretty good. And it is the same model as Michford's first tractor picture. So, what does that tell me? I assume it is an Elenco?
Where is the casting number on the tractor located that identifies the model of tractor I removed the end from? I forgot to search for a casting number when we were striping it down.
Any additional information would help. I have been researching the Elenco company a little more, and see that they made approx 5000 units before discont operation. How many different tractors did they offer kits for?
 
You definitely have an Elenco there, and a complete one at that. There will be a serial number on the front axle housing on top of the longer tube and one on the top rear of the transfer case. The Elenco serial numbers will begin with "EW". There may also be a serial number on the torque limiter, but I have not found one on mine so I can't say where for sure. Your is the early style with the torque limiter directly behind the differential. As far as the I.D. of the tractor you removed it from, there is a horizontal flat spot behind the starter that will have a three digit number that is the model number, and below that will be a five or six digit number that is the serial number of the tractor. If the yard is local to you, it would be good to know the model of the tractor so you can either find the same model to reinstall the Elenco. The model you removed it from is likely an 841 with a four speed, an 851 or 861 with a five speed, or an 871 or 881 with a ten speed. The coupler between the trans and rear end is specific to each transmission. It may also be worth a trip back to the salvage yard as some four speed tractors that were equipped with an Elenco were also equipped with a Sherman combination auxiliary transmission. The Sherman was only used with a four speed, and has a high and low range, giving the four speed tractor and additional eight speeds. At least you had beautiful weather yesterday in Michigan for the outside work. Congrats again on your score. Michford (Pat)
 
The model number fo the tractor should be a number stamped into the metal (not a raised casting number) stamped into a flat spot on the transmission bell housing just to the rear and above the starter. The serial number should also be in the same location.

As for getting the wheels to turn, try jacking up the axle so both tires are in the air and spin one wheel. If the differential and axle halves are all connected and working properly the other wheel should turn in the opposite direction.
 
(quoted from post at 03:58:37 04/18/16) You definitely have an Elenco there, and a complete one at that. There will be a serial number on the front axle housing on top of the longer tube and one on the top rear of the transfer case. The Elenco serial numbers will begin with "EW". There may also be a serial number on the torque limiter, but I have not found one on mine so I can't say where for sure. Your is the early style with the torque limiter directly behind the differential. As far as the I.D. of the tractor you removed it from, there is a horizontal flat spot behind the starter that will have a three digit number that is the model number, and below that will be a five or six digit number that is the serial number of the tractor. If the yard is local to you, it would be good to know the model of the tractor so you can either find the same model to reinstall the Elenco. The model you removed it from is likely an 841 with a four speed, an 851 or 861 with a five speed, or an 871 or 881 with a ten speed. The coupler between the trans and rear end is specific to each transmission. It may also be worth a trip back to the salvage yard as some four speed tractors that were equipped with an Elenco were also equipped with a Sherman combination auxiliary transmission. The Sherman was only used with a four speed, and has a high and low range, giving the four speed tractor and additional eight speeds. At least you had beautiful weather yesterday in Michigan for the outside work. Congrats again on your score. Michford (Pat)

Hey Guys, I appreciate the help. I was planning on going back for exact model number the next time I"m in the area. I have to return soon to get the doors of the van I was on a mission to find before I became side tracked with tractor parts. It sounds like you have it nail done already because I made sure to check the transmission for gear number. It was a 4 speed trans, so according to your above, that makes it a 841. I will confirm. I will probably work on those super ugly welding repairs and haul the whole mess over to the sandblaster next time I take I trip there to clean it up and shoot a coat of primer on it to make it look alittle more presentable. Now that you have seen the complete package, what you do believe my resale valve. I'd like to keep it around and pick up a ford to put it on, BUT I'm about $12,000 into the restoration of a JD 730 diesel pony start...... and still short some $$$. I really like the look of your blue Ford with the traction tires on the front. The only thing cooler than that, is the JD 70 standard I saw a picture of that some guy somehow put one on! One of a kind, I would like to make two of a kind.
Thanks again Rick
 

There is a ytube video of this guy name Tim Sweeney running his JD. It's axle housing looks complete different. He must have made the whole thing.
MVI 4315 ytube
 
I went back and reread your original post. With the tractor you removed the Elenco from being a diesel, it is very likely the model number will not be readable. A lot of the Ford diesels from this era have the model number obscured from battery acid leakage over time. At least you already looked at the shift pattern and that it was a four speed. When you do go back, look for a curved lever on the left side of the tractor just below where the steering box was as it may have a Sherman combo auxiliary transmission that would be nice to get. I would not get to crazy just yet with cleaning up the weld on the front axle. I could see removing the added rib, but the wide weld may be where the front axle was narrowed when the axle was altered to become part of the Elenco package. The front axle in the early Elenco kit is a narrowed Dodge power wagon front axle. Elenco narrowed the axle and added the mounting for the Ford tractor front axle. I will have to look at my Elenco front axle again tonight, but I think it also has some weld on it like yours near the end of the tube where it meets the pumpkin. Unless you are going to restore this Elenco and use it, I would not do any more cleanup other than degreasing it. As for resale, you do now have the entire Elenco unit and parts from the power steering system. Four or five years ago these were hot, but the market has cooled somewhat. These don't come up for sale often enough for a good average value, but a few years back an unrestored setup might go for around $2000 and a restored unit for $6000. The blue tractor in my picture is supposed to be red and gray, but I put it back together to put it to work again a couple of years ago and have not tore it back apart to finish the cosmetics. The blue tractor has a Sherman conversion on it. I like the ag tires on the front and will put them on my Elenco when it gets off the back burner someday. The John Deere that Tim built is amazing, he sourced the front axle and built the rest of his front wheel assist.
 

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