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1963 Ford 4000 PTO

D

Dear Ol Dad

Member
Howdy to all!,
One quick question as I've gone thru many pages looking for similar problems but haven't seen anything. We recently purchased a 63 Ford 4000 that we named; L.C. or Elsie if you prefer. This tractor is a 5sp and suppose to have a live pto. Adjusting the pedal height to 9 and 3/8" pushing the clutch pedal down all the way doesn't stop the pto. In fact engaging the pto with the engine running is impossible. We have gone thru IT FO 20 manual but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Does anyone have any idea what may be causing this problem or where we can look to find the answer? Any suggestions welcome but please keep them reasonable! Thanks to all.
 
(quoted from post at 13:13:43 09/01/15) Howdy to all!,
One quick question as I've gone thru many pages looking for similar problems but haven't seen anything. We recently purchased a 63 Ford 4000 that we named; L.C. or Elsie if you prefer. This tractor is a 5sp and suppose to have a live pto. Adjusting the pedal height to 9 and 3/8" pushing the clutch pedal down all the way doesn't stop the pto. In fact engaging the pto with the engine running is impossible. We have gone thru IT FO 20 manual but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Does anyone have any idea what may be causing this problem or where we can look to find the answer? Any suggestions welcome but please keep them reasonable! Thanks to all.
Click to expand...

According to a quick search, you do not have a "live pto" on that tractor, you have "independent pto". See if this helps....

[i:77ef245599]An independent PTO means that the PTO shaft is controlled with a separate clutch. As with a live PTO, this allows for full control over the tractor while separately controlling the PTO. There are two major types of independent PTO; mechanical and hydraulic. A mechanical-independent PTO uses a separate on-off selector, in addition to the PTO control lever. Often the tractor must be stopped or off to change this selector position. A hydraulic-independent PTO uses a single selector.[/i:77ef245599][/i]
 
Verify that the pin in the clutch activation linkage is in the fully extended hole.

Dean
 
Martyh - the only pre-1965 Ford tractor that ever had independent PTO were the ones with the Select-O-Speed transmissions. Almost all of the 1965 and later 3 cylinder 4000 models did have independent PTO, but there were a few exceptions even there.

Dear Ol Dad - If the clutch pedal linkage is adjusted properly and pushing down the clutch pedal halfway disengages the transmission but pushing it all of the way down does not disengage the PTO, then either the PTO clutch is stuck to the flywheel or the internal adjustments are way off or things are worn to the point that they can't be put back in adjustment, which is where my money is. You could try blocking the clutch pedal down while the tractor is parked for a few days to see if it might unstick, but it is likely that you will have to split the tractor between the engine and transmission to get in there and unstick it manually or adjust things, or more likely, replace the clutch assembly.
 

Thanks guys! I'm trying my best to wrap my head around all of this as I'm no tractor mechanic...per se! I really appreciate all the info!
martyh; the info you've given me makes me think this tractor is running as it should. Still, the manual does state that pushing the clutch pedal down all the way should stop the pto. I can't vouch for the manual since this is a first for me. Thank you!

Dean: I appreciate your input and yes...the clutch clevis is mounted in the correct hole. Thanks for the reminder!

Sean: I am totally unaware of the inner workings under the shifter lid but your response sounds logical. I will try your suggestion of blocking the clutch pedal for a day or so to see if anything happens.

Thank you gentlemen for your assistance and support. My old noodle seems to turn to tapioca when things get involved and reading your replies helps to clear he fog in my brain. All of you...Be Well!

Steve
 
Let's see if I can confuse you some more! Adjust the clutch rod at the turn buckle so as to have the clutch pedal standing straight up. With your hand, push on the pedal until you feel some resistance, ground drive clutch, now keep going, towards the bottom there should be a second feeling of resistance. PTO clutch., IF you have a two stage clutch.
 
(quoted from post at 17:18:50 09/01/15) Let's see if I can confuse you some more! Adjust the clutch rod at the turn buckle so as to have the clutch pedal standing straight up. With your hand, push on the pedal until you feel some resistance, ground drive clutch, now keep going, towards the bottom there should be a second feeling of resistance. PTO clutch., IF you have a two stage clutch.
Click to expand...

If it is a 1963 Ford 4000 and it's got a 5 speed then it has a two stage clutch and live PTO. They stopped making 5 speeds with non-live PTO when the 4 cylinder thousand series came out.
 
Hi Shaun,
Can't help you with that right now since the tractor is at my son's house. Give me some time and thanks for the reply!

Steve
 
Hi WayneIA,

I forwarded your reply to my son and had him adjust the pedal as you suggested. Not only did he adjust it but started the tractor to check the pto operation. He text me back saying that now the pto does stop. I think you can guess my next question. With the clutch pedal adjusted straight up...and the pto operates like it should, is there an internal adjustment that's out of tolerance that prevents it from operating within specs? Any suggestions would sure help! Thanks again for the advice.

Steve
 
I'm speculating that the "traction", ground drive clutch has gone south. Now, adjust the turnbuckle so as to "just" be able to get the PTO in gear just before the pedal hits the step without grinding. Using the set screw, adjust the pedal clearance at the top so as to have 3/4 to and inch free travel and see how far the pedal is out of spec.
 
Thanks WayneIA,
Too late to work on it today and my son works all day so it may take a day or so before I can get back to you with the results. Take care...be well!

Steve
 
Adjust the pedal higher. Also, make sure the free play is right (around 3/4", I don't remember the exact spec). If it has too much free play, then that's taking away from the amount of pedal movement available to release the PTO clutch. Free play is adjusted with the stop bolt.

It may be sticky from lack of use. Have you tried to operate a PTO implement with your tractor? Some heavy brush-hogging may be what it needs.
 
Hi MarkB,
Thanks for the reply! Sadly, yes, after I adjusted the clutch to book specs my son hooked a bushhog (called a shredder here in my part of Texas) and that's when we found out about the clutch for the pto not disengaging. After my son gets off work today I will head to his place and help with adjusting the pedal and free play where we can still engage the pto without grinding. One suggestion was to lock the clutch pedal down for a few days to see if the disk was frozen and might pop loose. BTW; after adjusting the clutch to specs the first time the tractor would stop but as I said before...the pto kept on cranking. Thanks again, take care...be well!

Steve
 
Hi Mark,
Just a quick note to let you know how things turned out on the pto thing. Using your info as a guide we proceeded but it a backwards way. I kept adjusting the clevis in until my son could engage the pto without grinding. Once we reached that point we measured pedal height...almost 2" higher than specs. The pto does disengage with almost 1" of pedal height left before touching the foot rest. Looks like I'll be in the market for a double clutch rebuild pretty soon. Thanks so much for the info! Be well.
 
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