SOS gurus- shifter help

Tiger Joe

Member
Ok SOS guys I need some ideas on how to troubleshoot. I took the top cover off my 871 to change the trans filter. I did not touch anything inside the top cover except changing the filter and fluid.

Now I reassembled everything and went to start tractor- nothing. After a short diagnosis I determined it will not turn over when the shifter indicates "Park" but will turn over in R2.

So is my shifter not adjusted correctly causing the misalignment? Or did I somehow mess up the safety switch under the top cover- is it possible to bump it out of alignment or something?

The tractor was working fine prior to removing cover.
 

You've got your shifter cable out of adjustment. Your stub is not protruding far enough above the transmission cover.
 

Worse than what Bern said. It is a mistake that is pretty much impossible to not make when removing an SOS cover without a manual.
 
(quoted from post at 21:59:11 06/15/15)
Worse than what Bern said. It is a mistake that is pretty much impossible to not make when removing an SOS cover without a manual.

Thank god I have a manual then.

Manual said said 2 3/4 which is where I set it but in my mind when I measured it when removing it I had remembered 3".

Pto cable is most certainly wrong as I'm battling a busted cable. The threads behind the dash for the conduit nut snapped off before I got the machine. I'm trying to see if I can live with this cable somehow or if I have to break down and spend the big bucks for a new one
 
ok got the shifter sorted out in about 2 minutes tonight.

Now the pto cable- mine is broke(cable is good but conduit is broken).

I tried setting it per manual and posts I read on here- wind it in until the conduit is touching the fitting on to cover. I did that but it seems to my like my pto is still stuck on. I haven't hooked anything up to it but I cannot stop it with a 6x6.

If I disconnect the pto cable completely from the to cover, should the pto be "off" then? I want to try to see if it's worth buying a new cable or if my pto is just stuck on
 
(quoted from post at 14:23:47 06/16/15) ok got the shifter sorted out in about 2 minutes tonight.

Now the pto cable- mine is broke(cable is good but conduit is broken).

I tried setting it per manual and posts I read on here- wind it in until the conduit is touching the fitting on to cover. I did that but it seems to my like my pto is still stuck on. I haven't hooked anything up to it but I cannot stop it with a 6x6.

If I disconnect the pto cable completely from the to cover, should the pto be "off" then? I want to try to see if it's worth buying a new cable or if my pto is just stuck on

I used the PTO on mine very little for the first ten years that I had it. I had to shut the engine down in order to stop the PTO. Three years ago I got a regular use for the PTO so I dug into it. I found that a sheet steel link that runs from right to left and swings to actuate the control valve was bent. I straightened the link and ever since it starts and stops as it should and holds a good strong load. Having no brake it still turns when off but with no power. If you will be using the tractor much without the PTO you wan to put a cover on it to keep the dust away from the seal.
 
Ok so I decided to play around a bit.

I disconnected the pto cable from the top cover and backed up to my brush hog.

Started tractor and gave it some throttle. Definitely can hear the PTO come up to speed.

Also the previous owner did tel me that he used the tractor PTO so that further leads me to conclude its stuck ON.

Is there any relatively simple troubleshooting I can do?

I skimmed my service manual and I seem to recall something about a feathering valve under to top cover. Would that be worth checking?
 
(quoted from post at 20:40:56 06/16/15) The first thing to do is to properly adjust the PTO control cable.

Dean

Dean with the cable disconnected completely would(or should) my PTO not be in the off position?

I'm trying to understand if the cable is my problem or there is another issue. So in my mind, without the cable to hold the pto on then it's off. Unless something inside the trans is stuck. Since I took my cable off and my pto still powered a 5' brush hog that makes me think I have an issue other than the cable.
 
(quoted from post at 18:35:32 06/16/15)
(quoted from post at 20:40:56 06/16/15) The first thing to do is to properly adjust the PTO control cable.

Dean

Dean with the cable disconnected completely would(or should) my PTO not be in the off position?

I'm trying to understand if the cable is my problem or there is another issue. So in my mind, without the cable to hold the pto on then it's off. Unless something inside the trans is stuck. Since I took my cable off and my pto still powered a 5' brush hog that makes me think I have an issue other than the cable.

Joe it is just the nature of clutch pack controlled PTOs that they will drag, and keep the shaft turning but with no force. very soon after your tractor was built they started putting brakes on them that stops it from turning. My earlier post tells what kept mine turning.
 
Showcrop- you wouldn't happen to have a pic of what yours looked like bent would you?

I'm fairly certain I know what bracket you are talking about, and I didn't see anything bent with mine- though I wasn't exactly looking either.

I completely understand that even when "OFF" the pto is going to continue to spin. what Im saying is mine is not free wheel spinning, it is engaged.

So im trying to do two things here:
1- diagnose what could be the problem with the PTO
2- determine if I need to buy a new cable.

If there is something wrong inside my trans causing the PTO to be stuck on, then it really makes little sense for me to spend all that money for a new cable.

So I've asked two specific questions, and no one has answered them:
1- with the PTO cable disconnected, the PTO reverts to the OFF position?
2- Is there anything I could fix related to the PTO if it is stuck ON that doesn't require splitting the tractor? seems 1 answer is to check the bracket under the top cover. anything else?

And I'll add a third question- does anyone have a spare PTO cable they want to sell?
 
(quoted from post at 04:14:49 06/17/15) Showcrop- you wouldn't happen to have a pic of what yours looked like bent would you?

I'm fairly certain I know what bracket you are talking about, and I didn't see anything bent with mine- though I wasn't exactly looking either.

I completely understand that even when "OFF" the pto is going to continue to spin. what Im saying is mine is not free wheel spinning, it is engaged.

So im trying to do two things here:
1- diagnose what could be the problem with the PTO
2- determine if I need to buy a new cable.

If there is something wrong inside my trans causing the PTO to be stuck on, then it really makes little sense for me to spend all that money for a new cable.

So I've asked two specific questions, and no one has answered them:
1- with the PTO cable disconnected, the PTO reverts to the OFF position?
2- Is there anything I could fix related to the PTO if it is stuck ON that doesn't require splitting the tractor? seems 1 answer is to check the bracket under the top cover. anything else?

And I'll add a third question- does anyone have a spare PTO cable they want to sell?

I didn't take a pic, but I can tell you that I studied it for literally hours before straightening it because it still looked factory when bent. I wouldn't describe the part as a bracket though, it is a link stamped from flat 20 gauge steel, approx. eight inches long. It does have a sharp 90 degree factory bend.
 

It depends on where the valve was when you unscrewed the cable. Unscrewing the cable and screwing it back into the connector inside the top cover doesn't change the position of the valve, only sliding the cable inwards or outwards without screwing or unscrewing would change the position of the valve. I believe that you said in a previous post that the conduit is bad, so you can't adjust it properly according to the book. If you are in the process of removing the cable by unscrewing it, then before it is completely disconnected, try pushing the exposed cable into the hole in the top cover as much as you can before finishing unscrewing it. That will be your best bet to get the valve into the "off" position.
 
(quoted from post at 16:26:59 06/17/15)
It depends on where the valve was when you unscrewed the cable. Unscrewing the cable and screwing it back into the connector inside the top cover doesn't change the position of the valve, only sliding the cable inwards or outwards without screwing or unscrewing would change the position of the valve. I believe that you said in a previous post that the conduit is bad, so you can't adjust it properly according to the book. If you are in the process of removing the cable by unscrewing it, then before it is completely disconnected, try pushing the exposed cable into the hole in the top cover as much as you can before finishing unscrewing it. That will be your best bet to get the valve into the "off" position.


Sean-

I can push/pull the cable in and out with no effect. I even unscrewed the cable probably and inch and tried moving it.

I can move the cable in and out quite easily, and I believe the pivot point inside the trans is moving- I'm not sure if the valve that controls the PTO is moving or not though.
 
Since you have the manual, the next thing to do is to follow the procedure for removing the transmission top cover so you can see what's going on inside then.
 
(quoted from post at 17:33:20 06/17/15)
(quoted from post at 16:26:59 06/17/15)
It depends on where the valve was when you unscrewed the cable. Unscrewing the cable and screwing it back into the connector inside the top cover doesn't change the position of the valve, only sliding the cable inwards or outwards without screwing or unscrewing would change the position of the valve. I believe that you said in a previous post that the conduit is bad, so you can't adjust it properly according to the book. If you are in the process of removing the cable by unscrewing it, then before it is completely disconnected, try pushing the exposed cable into the hole in the top cover as much as you can before finishing unscrewing it. That will be your best bet to get the valve into the "off" position.


Sean-

I can push/pull the cable in and out with no effect. I even unscrewed the cable probably and inch and tried moving it.

I can move the cable in and out quite easily, and I believe the pivot point inside the trans is moving- I'm not sure if the valve that controls the PTO is moving or not though.

That was the problem with mine. The cable was going in and out OK but was not being translated from right to left due to the bent link.
 
in the next couple days Im going to pull the top cover and shoot a video of what mine is doing.

I just had the cover to change the filter, and as far as I could tell, the cable moves, and the "bracket" the cable attaches to that crosses over the top of the trans is moving.

Still working on locating a PTO cable also
 
(quoted from post at 15:26:59 06/17/15)
It depends on where the valve was when you unscrewed the cable. Unscrewing the cable and screwing it back into the connector inside the top cover doesn't change the position of the valve, only sliding the cable inwards or outwards without screwing or unscrewing would change the position of the valve. I believe that you said in a previous post that the conduit is bad, so you can't adjust it properly according to the book. If you are in the process of removing the cable by unscrewing it, then before it is completely disconnected, try pushing the exposed cable into the hole in the top cover as much as you can before finishing unscrewing it. That will be your best bet to get the valve into the "off" position.

True! But unless the actuator is stuck in the cover, it's likely to fall to the off position or further when the cable is removed.
 

Larry that was my thinking based on my limited understanding of the SOS transmission. I was seeing the things move under the cover which leads me to think the valve is stuck.

is it possible to check the valve with the cover off? or does the control valve assembly have to be takin off?
 
(quoted from post at 11:17:24 06/18/15)

is it possible to check the valve with the cover off? or does the control valve assembly have to be takin off?

You ought to be able to check for sticking valves without removing the control valve body.
 
I did get lucky and have an originaly PTO cable on its way to me.

Tomorrow I'm going to pull the top cover and shoot a video of exactly what movement I have. So hopefully one of you experts can tell me if anything is wrong!
 
pulled the top cover today. Here's a pic:
F9B787D7-7817-4529-BA42-64989697DB2D_zpsuz9pepul.jpg


Everything looks normal to me, but again I don't know too much.

Here is a link I tried to shoot a video of the PTO linkage movement:
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/...8-DBBB-4035-9D70-87E69790F073_zpslkmruhqs.mp4

It seems to me like the linkage is moving the control valve in and out properly. Anyone have any thoughts?
 
(quoted from post at 14:27:27 06/20/15) pulled the top cover today. Here's a pic:
F9B787D7-7817-4529-BA42-64989697DB2D_zpsuz9pepul.jpg


Everything looks normal to me, but again I don't know too much.

Here is a link I tried to shoot a video of the PTO linkage movement:
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/...8-DBBB-4035-9D70-87E69790F073_zpslkmruhqs.mp4

It seems to me like the linkage is moving the control valve in and out properly. Anyone have any thoughts?

The bracket appears to be working positively and it appears to be pushing the plunger in the control valve. That bracket is much heavier material than the part that I had that was bent. There appears to be a thin metal part below the cable that you are working in and out. Another thought is the amount of particles of foreign material in there. There is supposed to be none. I would be flushing it out good with fuel, then fill to working level with fuel and run it for a few minutes, but without any load, then refill with UTF.
 
(quoted from post at 16:27:27 06/20/15)

Check your PTO regulating valve pressure thusly: With your transmission in neutral, and a 300 PSI gauge at Servo 2, pull your PTO control handle to the mid position(if you can figure out where that is with your broken upper body). The pressure reading at servo 2 should be 150 +/- 5 psi.

If that is all good and you are certain your PTO is fully engaged permanently, you have to have mechanical damage to the PTO clutch assembly itself. Unfortunately, service of that clutch requires removal and complete teardown of the transmission. It is the last component to come out of the case.
 
(quoted from post at 08:28:46 06/21/15)
(quoted from post at 16:27:27 06/20/15)

Check your PTO regulating valve pressure thusly: With your transmission in neutral, and a 300 PSI gauge at Servo 2, pull your PTO control handle to the mid position(if you can figure out where that is with your broken upper body). The pressure reading at servo 2 should be 150 +/- 5 psi.

If that is all good and you are certain your PTO is fully engaged permanently, you have to have mechanical damage to the PTO clutch assembly itself. Unfortunately, service of that clutch requires removal and complete teardown of the transmission. It is the last component to come out of the case.

Thanks Larry.

I have a new PTO cable on the way. Hopefully here mid week. Once I get the cable I'm going to reassemble and I will check.

I'll post black what I find. If it's serious, like what you mention, then the pto will just stay stuck on!
 
ok new PTO cable arrived and I installed it. I adjusted per larrys post I have read before:

Installed in the "engaged" position and then tighten conduit nuts.

Seems to have made no difference in my PTO.

I did not get to check the pressure, will do that tomorrow night.

I did notice something- not sure if it's related-my trans psi light. It was not working so I installed a new one. Couldn't get it to work and determined everything was OK wiring wise, so it must be the pressure sensor/ground in the back of trans(I could remove wire and ground and light worked)

Here's the odd part- if I drain the fluid completely(which I have twice) the light works perfectly on first startup and goes off after a few seconds. However it will NOT come back on no matter how long the tractor sits. Unless I drain the fluid.

Not sure if this could be related to my PTO at all or if it's a bad pressure switch?
 
(quoted from post at 19:17:23 06/23/15) Here's the odd part- if I drain the fluid completely(which I have twice) the light works perfectly on first startup and goes off after a few seconds. However it will NOT come back on no matter how long the tractor sits. Unless I drain the fluid.

Not sure if this could be related to my PTO at all or if it's a bad pressure switch?

That's just weird :eek: I don't know what to tell ya on that one!
 
How far should I be able to pull my PTO cable in/out to engage/disengage?

my chrome handle seems to only move roughly 1- 1 1/2". it moves from basically seated against the dash to out roughly 1"+

seems like it should be more but what do I know
 
(quoted from post at 09:38:50 06/25/15) How far should I be able to pull my PTO cable in/out to engage/disengage?

my chrome handle seems to only move roughly 1- 1 1/2". it moves from basically seated against the dash to out roughly 1"+

seems like it should be more but what do I know

Without going to actually measure one I'd say 2.5 inches
 

ok thanks for the ballpark.

I've been thinking(which is dangerous), combined with what I have read in the service manual.

I need to take some pressure readings, but my brain is starting to wonder if my PTO feathering valve isn't stuck ON. or maybe needs adjusted.

I have free time either tonight or this weekend, I am planning to go thru all the adjustment checks in the service manual
 
(quoted from post at 07:38:50 06/25/15) How far should I be able to pull my PTO cable in/out to engage/disengage?

my chrome handle seems to only move roughly 1- 1 1/2". it moves from basically seated against the dash to out roughly 1"+

seems like it should be more but what do I know

I was baling hay with my 971 today, so I engaged, disengaged a bunch of times. mine moves about 1 1/4 inch.
 

Oops! I went and measured two of mine. I was off by an inch to inch and a quarter. They measure from 1.25 to 1.5 inches from disengaged to engaged.
 
I HAVE A WORKING PTO!!!

I spent this afternoon adjusting all my bands and then decided to pull my top cover again. Played around with the cover off and started the tractor and got my pto to stop. So knew I could get my cable in.

got it all back together and now have a working pto. Feels damn good to finally have that straightened out
 
(quoted from post at 15:29:08 06/28/15) I HAVE A WORKING PTO!!!

I spent this afternoon adjusting all my bands and then decided to pull my top cover again. Played around with the cover off and started the tractor and got my pto to stop. So knew I could get my cable in.

Out it all back together and now have a working pto. Feels damn good to finally have that straightened out

Congratulations!!! But what was it that made the difference?
 
(quoted from post at 21:51:39 06/28/15)
(quoted from post at 15:29:08 06/28/15) I HAVE A WORKING PTO!!!

I spent this afternoon adjusting all my bands and then decided to pull my top cover again. Played around with the cover off and started the tractor and got my pto to stop. So knew I could get my cable in.

Out it all back together and now have a working pto. Feels damn good to finally have that straightened out

Congratulations!!! But what was it that made the difference?

I think- and im not even totally sure- that it was a combination of two things:
1- I did not have my cable adjusted out enough in the ON position, so I couldn't push it far enough to stop.
2- it seemed like the park safety starter swtich bracket was bent down ever so slightly and the PTO lever would hit it when moving to OFF. I bent it up slightly.
 

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