1959? Ford 1841? Deisel, first tractor a few questions

Hello, just purchased my first tractor yesterday. I believe it is a 59ish 1841. It has a 4 cylinder deisel, bucket and back hoe. It runs well and everything appears to work fairly well and it is overall a solid machine as far as I can tell. It is equipped with the 4 speed Trans, pto, also has 3 point system ( no lift bars are on it or anything because of the back hoe). I am thinking I should change all the fluids before I get to using it, it has sat for a long time and the only thing the previous owner did when he got it running again Was change the oil. could you guys help me out with proper lubricant selection? My main concerns are the diff and Trans and hydraulic system. I'm thinking good old 15w40 for the engine. My shop manual says m4864a for the diff and trans From what I can tell. What is a good modern alternative? Looks like m2c41 for the hydraulic system and steering? Also need a good modern alternative. I was thinking i would probably use like an 80w90 gl5 for the diff and trans and just some good old aw32 for the hydraulics But after all my reading I figured i should post here and make sure. I have a few other questions that I will post shortly, I need to snap some pics to go with them though. Thanks in advance for the help, I have been browsing the site for a few weeks and you guys seem knowledgeable and awesome.

Those 3 compartments, can use the current Ford/NH specified fluid, one reason being the seal between the trans and hydraulic compartment can leak and the heavier oils like 90wt are not so good in the hydraulics. I can't recall the name of it at the moment, but likely have a container of it outside. I run 90wt in my differential and trans, have not noticed any of that mixing with the hydraulic oil in the center compartment, yet at least LOL! There is a rationale behind the current recommendation, but after tightening things up and fixing leaks, seems the heavier oil does not seep nearly as much or at all, my garage floor was always stained from this tractor, always kept something under it to absorb, dry sawdust from firewood cutting or speedy dry. 15W40 rotella seems to work fine in my engine, it maintains over 40 psi when hot, over 50 when first started, though I believe pressure is not as important as volume, peculiar thing happens when the level gets low,(valve cover leak used to cause this) the pressure drops unless facing up slope or down, I forget now, top it off, its good. Mine mostly resides inside during winter, but if outside and less than 20 deg F, it cranks slower with that oil, but nothing a strong battery cannot deal with, it fires and runs with just a little help right down to 0 deg F.

You have made a nice compliment to the folks here !

Be great to see photos of this model, not the most common to find, but not rare either.

Be real nice to see the backhoe mount on it.

I wonder if all had the 3 pt, and pto, 1841's that is, makes it a versatile tractor, but from a production stand point, and other basic models of the same era, like a 621/821, those parts may be deleted. Thats interesting, as I'm not sure if the 1841 is similar to the 851 or 861 with the 2 stage clutch, one difference being the full frame to the front, the heavy nose/guard and I believe the power steering if I am correct.

Anyways, welcome !!!!!!

Any UTF that meets the Ford/New Holland M2C134D specification in the trans, hydraulics and rear axle. As Billy says, the seals between them can leak and using the same fluid in all 3 avoids cross contamination.

Not all Heavy duty industrials came with 3pt and or pto but you could order it. HD's never had a 5 speed/2 stage
clutch.

Kirk

OK so upon further inspection, doesn't have a pto . The guy I bought it from said it did, doesn't really matter i guess because I mainly bought it for the backhoe.

Thats what I was after, I've seen them with S-0-S and 4 speeds. Never saw a a one of these in our shop, they must have been special order, same as the later 3500-5500 backhoes we used to sell, all of those were on order, the town bought 2 5500's that we painted and decal'd in their orange color, could not have been 10 years now since it was finally surplus'd, they still have a hundred series we sold though.

What is this lever for? Also that dipstick has no liquid on it, just really tacky grease. I think that's probably not how it's supposed to be. What should it be full of? Actually I'm not ever really sure what the whole unit is.

and the lever to the left with the wire tie thing hanging from it?

Pics of some numbers on the trans, the whole unit and the back hoe mounts. I'm thinking that my ID of the tractor is wrong, unless it does have a pto and somehow I'm missing it? Where would the output shafts be? Sorry for the dumb questions but this is my first piece of equipment bigger than a lawn mower. Maybe you guys could give me a better guess on year make model, let me know. I can try to find more numbers if needed. It's a 4cyl deisel, cable steering system so I think that narrows it down a bit.

I found this on tractor data .Com site.

"The optional Reversing Transmission adds a reverser lever to the left side of the tractor. The lever allows an unsychronized shuttle shift by stopping the tractor, using the clutch, and pulling the lever."

Is that what the first lever is and if so what does that mean in non-tractor educated guy terms?

So I just went out and played with it a bit. The front lever is a reverser. I figured out what it does the other lever by the little dip stick doesn't move. Should it?

Hi. I just bought our first tractor recently - a 650. I believe that 'other' lever is to engage your PTO. The dipstick and the compartment they are both attached to are for the hydraulic fluid. There is a drain plug on the bottom and the filler is the large disk on the top. The PTO shaft comes out of the back of the differential housing - there may be a round screw-on cover over it. It is short, about 1" in diameter and splined.

HTH a little.

phil n

Awesome, thanks for the info. I'll check that out. I did see a cover or something sticking in out of the diff. Maybe it does have a pto. Should I try to force the lever?

Edited for horrible spelling.

Just going from experience with the only tractor I've ever owned, it did take a bit of pushing and pulling to get it moved - with the clutch disengaged - or with the engine off.

Others with much more knowledge than I will probably be coming along soon.

Handle/lever with ties is a sherman reverser. This will give you 4 forward gears and 4 reverse gear, Although I
would try 4th gear in reverse. It acts kind of like a shuttle But you have to depress the clutch and stop the
tractor before engaging the tranny.
It is likely that the tractor had a 3pt at one time because of the top cover and pto lever. Some of the
internals may still be there so it would be possible to hook up a 3pt hitch/pto. One of mine has the 3pt but
never gets used because of the hoe. Kinda of a pain to disconnect when I have other tractors with 3pt.
I hope your tractor has been changed out from the actuator cable steering system as some of those parts are no
longer available.
Good luck with your new tractor. Those kid seem to really like it.

Kirk

An 1841 should have come from the factory with a PTO and 3 point hydraulics. If it didn't then it would have been an 1821.

It most likely has had the backhoe on it most of its life, so the PTO handle has probably never been moved, and since it also probably never had the 3 point hydraulics used maybe it ran for a period without enough fluid in the hydraulic reservoir to keep the PTO coupling from getting condensation water on it and it may have rusted some. Before you go trying to force the handle to move I would remove the round plate that the handle and dipstick are attached at to see the PTO coupling and what shape it is in and maybe spray some PB Blast on it a couple times a day for a few days to see if it will free up without having to be forced too hard.

Thanks for all the help so far guys, I really do appreciate it. I don't really live in farm country so no one local can really help.

Yup, the boys are super excited about the tractor. My local autoparts store has a bucket of UTF that meets the M2C134D spec, should be good right? The closest tractor supply is ~30 miles away vs. less than a mile from my work for the auto parts store. I will make the drive if I need to, would just like to avoid it for something like that. I know I will end up there soon enough.

One more thing, would it be a good idea to run some cetane booster/deisel kleen in that engine?

You say it runs good now. If it were mine, I would run it as is for about a month keeping an eye on fluid levels and such.Also look for any
small leaks.
Just remember - Any small problem is a lot easier to fix early on as most likely it will only get worse.

(quoted from post at 03:28:37 05/30/15) An 1841 should have come from the factory with a PTO and 3 point hydraulics. If it didn't then it would have been an 1821.

It most likely has had the backhoe on it most of its life, so the PTO handle has probably never been moved, and since it also probably never had the 3 point hydraulics used maybe it ran for a period without enough fluid in the hydraulic reservoir to keep the PTO coupling from getting condensation water on it and it may have rusted some. Before you go trying to force the handle to move I would remove the round plate that the handle and dipstick are attached at to see the PTO coupling and what shape it is in and maybe spray some PB Blast on it a couple times a day for a few days to see if it will free up without having to be forced too hard.

Click to expand...

Sean,
Did YT delete a bunch of posts or is it just my computer?
Kirk

(quoted from post at 20:24:10 05/30/15)

(quoted from post at 03:28:37 05/30/15) An 1841 should have come from the factory with a PTO and 3 point hydraulics. If it didn't then it would have been an 1821.

It most likely has had the backhoe on it most of its life, so the PTO handle has probably never been moved, and since it also probably never had the 3 point hydraulics used maybe it ran for a period without enough fluid in the hydraulic reservoir to keep the PTO coupling from getting condensation water on it and it may have rusted some. Before you go trying to force the handle to move I would remove the round plate that the handle and dipstick are attached at to see the PTO coupling and what shape it is in and maybe spray some PB Blast on it a couple times a day for a few days to see if it will free up without having to be forced too hard.

Click to expand...

Sean,
Did YT delete a bunch of posts or is it just my computer?
Kirk

Click to expand...

Kirk,

In the 2nd post in modern view Billy NY was speculating as to whether it had a PTO and 3 point, so I said that if it was an 1841 it should, and if it didn't it would be an 1821.

Then in the 10th post the OP said that the PTO lever won't move, and then in the 12th post he asked if he should force it.

All 3 of those posts are still there as far as I can see.

Thanks Sean, wrong post, found it.

Kirk

It finally stopped raining here. Anything I should look out for when I pull off that round plate with the pot lever? Ie pieces falling out/down or stuff to line back up when reinstalling?

Nothing falling out. When reinstalling line the handle end inbetween the two big fat steel washer on the shifter
rail rod.

Thanks, I appreciate the help.