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Ford 841 Hydraulic issues

B

bamapony

New User
Hello,
Ol' Rusty is giving me fits with the hydraulics. When I move the touch control lever to raise the hydraulics I get no movement in the arms and dont seem to be getting any pressure to the cylinder though it does sound to be putting more strain on the pump as if it were raising the hitch arms and is pumping fluid to the external valve mounted on the lift cover.
With that being said I will now tell what all I have done so far. I recently overhauled the engine (which runs like a dream) and decided to go through the hydraulics due to it bobbing or hiccuping. I replaced all orings and seals with oem parts including the control valve oring, replaced cam follower pin and rebuilt pump including a new wobble shaft . Originally when I put it back together the arms raised as soon as I started the engine even before I could bleed the system completely so shut it down and pulled the cover to readjust the linkage finding where I had gone wrong the first time. Using the I&T manual I adjusted it again put it back on with the same results so I pulled the cover again and checked the linkage again still in spec but same results.
When I originally had the cover off I completely cleaned the reservoir
I am using premium UTF fluid
Drained the trans to make sure no fluid was getting in the trans..none

Sorry to be so long but I am stumped. Hopefully you guys can think of something I am overlooking.
Thanks in advance
 
First, if the arms raised as soon as you started the engine then there should be no reason to bleed the system.

Next, maybe it's me, but it doesn't seem clear exactly what your current issue is. First you say:

When I move the touch control lever to raise the hydraulics I get no movement in the arms and dont seem to be getting any pressure to the cylinder though it does sound to be putting more strain on the pump as if it were raising the hitch arms and is pumping fluid to the external valve mounted on the lift cover.
Click to expand...

Then later you say:

Originally when I put it back together the arms raised as soon as I started the engine even before I could bleed the system completely so shut it down and pulled the cover to readjust the linkage finding where I had gone wrong the first time.
Click to expand...

That is different symptoms then you first described. Then you after taking it apart and putting it back together a couple of more times you keep saying "same results".... same as which of the two previously described symptoms? Do the arms raise when you start the engine and don't lower, or they don't raise when you raise the handle?
 
(quoted from post at 12:22:26 05/28/15) First, if the arms raised as soon as you started the engine then there should be no reason to bleed the system.

Next, maybe it's me, but it doesn't seem clear exactly what your current issue is. First you say:

When I move the touch control lever to raise the hydraulics I get no movement in the arms and dont seem to be getting any pressure to the cylinder though it does sound to be putting more strain on the pump as if it were raising the hitch arms and is pumping fluid to the external valve mounted on the lift cover.
Click to expand...

Then later you say:

Originally when I put it back together the arms raised as soon as I started the engine even before I could bleed the system completely so shut it down and pulled the cover to readjust the linkage finding where I had gone wrong the first time.
Click to expand...

That is different symptoms then you first described. Then you after taking it apart and putting it back together a couple of more times you keep saying "same results".... same as which of the two previously described symptoms? Do the arms raise when you start the engine and don't lower, or they don't raise when you raise the handle?
Click to expand...
After the arms raised on their own I removed the cover to readjusted the linkage, the arms no longer raised on their own but became unresponsive to movement of the touch control lever so I removed the cover once again to check the adjustment. I had someone else check it while it was off the last time.
 
(quoted from post at 07:48:32 05/29/15) Sounds like the unload valve was stuck closed the first time and now it's stuck open.
Click to expand...
originally the adjustments were too "tight" allowing the arms to raise with lever in the lowering position but now the unloader valve is in spec and moves as it should. I watched it while running with a boroscope..
 
(quoted from post at 23:03:52 05/29/15)
(quoted from post at 07:48:32 05/29/15) Sounds like the unload valve was stuck closed the first time and now it's stuck open.
Click to expand...
originally the adjustments were too "tight" allowing the arms to raise with lever in the lowering position but now the unloader valve is in spec and moves as it should. I watched it while running with a boroscope..
Click to expand...
unloader valve is in spec and moves as it should"...... and how is that? I mean, "as it should".
 
(quoted from post at 23:19:47 05/29/15)
(quoted from post at 23:03:52 05/29/15)
(quoted from post at 07:48:32 05/29/15) Sounds like the unload valve was stuck closed the first time and now it's stuck open.
Click to expand...
originally the adjustments were too "tight" allowing the arms to raise with lever in the lowering position but now the unloader valve is in spec and moves as it should. I watched it while running with a boroscope..
Click to expand...
unloader valve is in spec and moves as it should"...... and how is that? I mean, "as it should".
Click to expand...
It moves as the the touch lever is moved. When the touch lever is moved to the raised position the unloader valve moves in, is that not correct?
 
(quoted from post at 10:31:22 05/30/15)
(quoted from post at 23:19:47 05/29/15)
(quoted from post at 23:03:52 05/29/15)
(quoted from post at 07:48:32 05/29/15) Sounds like the unload valve was stuck closed the first time and now it's stuck open.
Click to expand...
originally the adjustments were too "tight" allowing the arms to raise with lever in the lowering position but now the unloader valve is in spec and moves as it should. I watched it while running with a boroscope..
Click to expand...
unloader valve is in spec and moves as it should"...... and how is that? I mean, "as it should".
Click to expand...
It moves as the the touch lever is moved. When the touch lever is moved to the raised position the unloader valve moves in, is that not correct?
Click to expand...
ounds like you may have mis-identified the unloader valve. The unloader valve has NO linkage connected to it. It is hydraulically operated and would be nearly impossible to see with all assembled. Its position can be determined with a wire probe thru a small hole, by feel.
 
(quoted from post at 10:49:10 05/30/15)
(quoted from post at 10:31:22 05/30/15)
(quoted from post at 23:19:47 05/29/15)
(quoted from post at 23:03:52 05/29/15)
(quoted from post at 07:48:32 05/29/15) Sounds like the unload valve was stuck closed the first time and now it's stuck open.
Click to expand...
originally the adjustments were too "tight" allowing the arms to raise with lever in the lowering position but now the unloader valve is in spec and moves as it should. I watched it while running with a boroscope..
Click to expand...
unloader valve is in spec and moves as it should"...... and how is that? I mean, "as it should".
Click to expand...
It moves as the the touch lever is moved. When the touch lever is moved to the raised position the unloader valve moves in, is that not correct?
Click to expand...
ounds like you may have mis-identified the unloader valve. The unloader valve has NO linkage connected to it. It is hydraulically operated and would be nearly impossible to see with all assembled. Its position can be determined with a wire probe thru a small hole, by feel.
Click to expand...
You are correct I had the two confused. I have the cover off so I will check it. I did look inside while it was running before I pulled the cover and noticed fluid churning around the valve in the right front corner, it didn't seem to change as I moved the touch control but did change with the rpms of the engine, is that normal?
I appreciate you guys replying and helping me with this.
 
(quoted from post at 12:57:07 05/30/15)
(quoted from post at 10:49:10 05/30/15)
(quoted from post at 10:31:22 05/30/15)
(quoted from post at 23:19:47 05/29/15)
(quoted from post at 23:03:52 05/29/15)
(quoted from post at 07:48:32 05/29/15) Sounds like the unload valve was stuck closed the first time and now it's stuck open.
Click to expand...
originally the adjustments were too "tight" allowing the arms to raise with lever in the lowering position but now the unloader valve is in spec and moves as it should. I watched it while running with a boroscope..
Click to expand...
unloader valve is in spec and moves as it should"...... and how is that? I mean, "as it should".
Click to expand...
It moves as the the touch lever is moved. When the touch lever is moved to the raised position the unloader valve moves in, is that not correct?
Click to expand...
ounds like you may have mis-identified the unloader valve. The unloader valve has NO linkage connected to it. It is hydraulically operated and would be nearly impossible to see with all assembled. Its position can be determined with a wire probe thru a small hole, by feel.
Click to expand...
robably normal,as I believe that is where the return dumps.
Click to expand...
 
How freely should the unloader valve move? I checked it,it pushed back fairly easy but It won't move on its on when you invert the cover. I purchased the o-ring for it from the dealer. I'll pull it out tomorrow and give it a look.
 
(quoted from post at 21:00:39 05/30/15) How freely should the unloader valve move? I checked it,it pushed back fairly easy but It won't move on its on when you invert the cover. I purchased the o-ring for it from the dealer. I'll pull it out tomorrow and give it a look.
Click to expand...
ever seen any force numbers on that. My estimate would be under 5 pounds force.
 
I pulled the unloader valve to check the oring and bore. Everthing seemed fine, the valve moves freely just a slight drag from the oring. But I did think of something, is there anyway I could have pressed the plug back in too far or not far enough(it was flush with the flange)?
 
(quoted from post at 21:51:03 06/01/15) I pulled the unloader valve to check the oring and bore. Everthing seemed fine, the valve moves freely just a slight drag from the oring. But I did think of something, is there anyway I could have pressed the plug back in too far or not far enough(it was flush with the flange)?
Click to expand...
ot likely, there may even be a ridge that stops the plug from going in too far.
 
Well after I reinstalled the cover I had the same results so I pulled the check valve in the front of the cover to make sure I installed everything correctly, it all seemed correct but didn't change the operation. I backed the plug that retains the check valve out approximately 1.5 turn and the lift started working flawlessly? This doesn't seem to be the correct fix but it works. I checked pressure at the pump(2000 psi) and and at the test port on the accessory port(1100 psi). Does this sound correct for the reading at the accessory port?
I really appreciate you guys working with me on this.
 
(quoted from post at 23:44:04 06/25/15) Well after I reinstalled the cover I had the same results so I pulled the check valve in the front of the cover to make sure I installed everything correctly, it all seemed correct but didn't change the operation. I backed the plug that retains the check valve out approximately 1.5 turn and the lift started working flawlessly? This doesn't seem to be the correct fix but it works. I checked pressure at the pump(2000 psi) and and at the test port on the accessory port(1100 psi). Does this sound correct for the reading at the accessory port?
I really appreciate you guys working with me on this.
Click to expand...
Pressures depend on weight of load being lifted. Check valve...well recently we saw the part that has a T cross section shape installed backwards & caused a similar problem (too much pressure required to open). The smaller portion should fit INSIDE the spring.
 
JMOR reading the post you're referring to is the reason I went back and checked the valve. Everything was installed correctly. It's got me but it's working so I'm going to get some bush hogging done.
 
(quoted from post at 23:55:46 06/26/15) JMOR reading the post you're referring to is the reason I went back and checked the valve. Everything was installed correctly. It's got me but it's working so I'm going to get some bush hogging done.
Click to expand...
ake hay while the sun is shining, as they say! have a good one!
 
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