1976 Ford 2600 hydraulic question

John I · May 17, 2015

Hi all !
Two years ago I bought the tractor which has worked great until I started using a log splitter on the back.
At first the splitter was very slow so someone told me to drain some oil off which I did and this worked however I've had to do it several times and now when I open the grub screw on the hydraulic pump nothing comes out which would suggest the tank is empty ?
So my first question is :-
A. How do I check the fluid level ? And have I been putting the hydraulic oil in the correct place i.e. in the tank beside the gear levers ( again someone said that the oil in this tank is for the gears and the hydraulics ??? but if this is so how has the level on the dip stick not changed yet I now have a drum with two gallons of hydraulic oil in which I've drained off ).
Thanks for reading this.... John

Fordfarmer · May 17, 2015

An owners manual is well worth the money. Readily
available on ebay.

Your tractor will run a log splitter slowly, no matter
what. They just don't have a high gpm pump.

The transmission (sounds lile that's where you've
been adding oil) has a separate oil reservoir from
the rear end and hydraulic system. There is a level
plug to check the oil level on the right side, just
above the footboard. The fill port is on the
differential housing, kind of under the seat.

Billy NY · May 17, 2015

If you need to use the tractor to run a splitter, its advisable to consider a PTO pump, Oil Reservoir, and re-plumbing the splitter to a configuration that makes more efficient use of the tractor. We have a 3600 with a one set of remotes, its not ideal for a splitter given the tractors hydraulic system. Its fine for lifting the rear gate on a NI manure spreader, but not being used stationary for something like splitter. Sure, you can do it, it will be slow and not efficient use of fuel.

Most self contained homeowner/light commercial splitters will have a 11 GPM or 16 GPM (2) stage pump. There is some coordinating and matching up of cylinder size/stroke/ GPM's to achieve a certain cycle time, that makes efficient use of the engine that powers it, at ideal rpm's. Relatively simple by doing some calculations. I'm no hydraulic expert, but the tractor's hydraulics don't have that kind of flow (GPM's) so nothing will change there. Use a pto pump, size and match things up, for 540 RPM's to make efficient use of its engine, still might not be as fuel efficient as a self contained unit, (splitter with a small gas engine and ***2 stage*** pump) I cannot explain the 2 stage pump mechanically, but when the cylinder meets enough resistance, (crotch wood, hard dense tough gnarly piece etc.) the cylinder speed slows and you have more force as I understand it in simple terms. I have a self contained Huskee 28 ton with about a 17 second cycle time, 11 gpm 2 stage pump and 4.5" cylinder with 24" or a bit longer stroke. Small honda GC 190 engine that runs for hours on one small tank of fuel, hard to see the tractor being as efficient as is or with the pto pump arrangement, though that arrangement would be a huge improvement, and make it livable with increase speed, though you may have the engine throttled up to make 540 rpms, 3 cylinder ford diesel are decent on fuel consumption.

That or add an engine, 2 stage pump with lovejoy connector and reservoir to the splitter, re-plumb as needed, then you can still take the tractor and splitter to the logs as many prefer to do and is why they use a 3 pt mounted splitter.

Just some thoughts, whoever told you to drain off hydraulic fluid from the tractor, may not be a good source of information, makes no sense, you'll eventually starve the pump, potentially cause damage and likely get air into the system, making more problems.

John I · May 17, 2015

(quoted from post at 06:10:18 05/17/15) If you need to use the tractor to run a splitter, its advisable to consider a PTO pump, Oil Reservoir, and re-plumbing the splitter to a configuration that makes more efficient use of the tractor. We have a 3600 with a one set of remotes, its not ideal for a splitter given the tractors hydraulic system. Its fine for lifting the rear gate on a NI manure spreader, but not being used stationary for something like splitter. Sure, you can do it, it will be slow and not efficient use of fuel.

Most self contained homeowner/light commercial splitters will have a 11 GPM or 16 GPM (2) stage pump. There is some coordinating and matching up of cylinder size/stroke/ GPM's to achieve a certain cycle time, that makes efficient use of the engine that powers it, at ideal rpm's. Relatively simple by doing some calculations. I'm no hydraulic expert, but the tractor's hydraulics don't have that kind of flow (GPM's) so nothing will change there. Use a pto pump, size and match things up, for 540 RPM's to make efficient use of its engine, still might not be as fuel efficient as a self contained unit, (splitter with a small gas engine and ***2 stage*** pump) I cannot explain the 2 stage pump mechanically, but when the cylinder meets enough resistance, (crotch wood, hard dense tough gnarly piece etc.) the cylinder speed slows and you have more force as I understand it in simple terms. I have a self contained Huskee 28 ton with about a 17 second cycle time, 11 gpm 2 stage pump and 4.5" cylinder with 24" or a bit longer stroke. Small honda GC 190 engine that runs for hours on one small tank of fuel, hard to see the tractor being as efficient as is or with the pto pump arrangement, though that arrangement would be a huge improvement, and make it livable with increase speed, though you may have the engine throttled up to make 540 rpms, 3 cylinder ford diesel are decent on fuel consumption.

That or add an engine, 2 stage pump with lovejoy connector and reservoir to the splitter, re-plumb as needed, then you can still take the tractor and splitter to the logs as many prefer to do and is why they use a 3 pt mounted splitter.

Just some thoughts, whoever told you to drain off hydraulic fluid from the tractor, may not be a good source of information, makes no sense, you'll eventually starve the pump, potentially cause damage and likely get air into the system, making more problems.

Hi there !
Thanks for your reply which is very informative.
I think for the time being ill try plan B which is using a hydraulic power pack which I've ordered and should be here soon.
In the mean time I need to get the hydraulics working again just to get it back in the barn.
Two years ago I bought my smallholding and used the tractor with front loader to move over 100 tonnes of stone etc. The tractor came with a concrete filled oil drum as a counter balance and that and the loader are flat on the ground. As I've mentioned I think I've been putting hydraulic oil in the wrong place so need to know A... which oil to use and B... where to put it.
p.s. the guy who told me to bleed oil from the hydraulic pump charged me £40 for the privilege. That's why this forum is a great idea :lol:
Thanks once again..... John

Billy NY · May 17, 2015

Hopefully no harm done to the tractor, get the correct manuals for it, ask some questions here, you'll get some great advice by some very kind folks and before you know it you'll be as familiar as you need to be with the 2600. If you do encounter some issues with the tractors hydraulics, more than likely you'll get some sage advice here on how to repair. Sounds as if the loader is tied into the tractors hydraulics and does not have separate front mount pump, powered off the engine crankshaft/pulley. One of those would be similar to the pto type pump, and the loader may benefit with more speed etc. A tractor like this does need rear ballast for loader work, to get decent traction, loaded tired and additional weight is beneficial, though I don't know if carrying a heavy weight is detrimental to the internal cylinder having to hold it up, I have an older series, use a heavy weight but can rest it on a cross bar off a backhoe frame, to relieve the tractors hydraulics from having to do same, heard it mentioned before though.

Anyone that charged you money for advice like that..... really? Drain out a substantial amount of hydraulic fluid from the tractors hydraulics, hard to make any sense of that. Draining all and changing it out/refilling then purging air etc is one thing, but to lower the level of fluid, serves no purpose as I see it. Make sure to use the correct oil, whatever the current equivalent is recommended.

You won't hurt the trans with an oil that meets ford specifications, so maybe drain and change that out. Same with the middle compartment, which is the tractors hydraulics, rear will be the differential compartment. Get the owners manual and whatever service manual covers the tractor, it will help immensely.

phil_n · May 17, 2015

I'm a raw newbie here - just bought my first tractor - but as you seem to be getting little traction, here's my tuppence worth. I [i:f49bb4a5f4]think[/i:f49bb4a5f4] you can use Universal Tractor Fluid (UTF) in everything - at least you can in my old 650. You appear to be in Britain as you paid in pounds and not dollars for the hydraulic advice; I'm pretty sure you can get UTF over there. I get it at Walmart (Asda?).

RodinNS · May 17, 2015

First things first.... what are you using to power the splitter? The tractor's internal hydraulics using a remote on the rear end or something off of a separate loader pump/reservoir for a front end loader that has a pump mounted on the front of the engine? If you're using the tractor's internal hydraulics you should not ever have to bleed anything on that system. The oil fill is behind the seat on the rear axle. I honestly forget right now where the level plug or dipstick is on that model but could either be a stick around the PTO lever or a plug around the rear of the right footboard.
Pictures would help immensely to show exactly what you have...

Rod

John I · May 18, 2015

(quoted from post at 10:53:38 05/17/15) First things first.... what are you using to power the splitter? The tractor's internal hydraulics using a remote on the rear end or something off of a separate loader pump/reservoir for a front end loader that has a pump mounted on the front of the engine? If you're using the tractor's internal hydraulics you should not ever have to bleed anything on that system. The oil fill is behind the seat on the rear axle. I honestly forget right now where the level plug or dipstick is on that model but could either be a stick around the PTO lever or a plug around the rear of the right footboard.
Pictures would help immensely to show exactly what you have..

Thanks Rod and everyone who has helped me with this problem.
I bought a pdf manual just after buying the tractor but at the time it just looked like letters and numbers however I've just had a look and found the filling port which may be in front of the seat ? This may have been replaced with a valve to switch the hydraulics to the back end ???

I will try to upload some pictures and you can look at where I've been putting the oil ( to the right of the gear sticks ) and the change over valve ( which could have been the filling port ? ).

John I · May 18, 2015

More pictures ( hopefully )

John I · May 18, 2015

John I · May 18, 2015

Sean in PA · May 18, 2015

The hole next to the gear shifters is the fill port for the transmission which is a separate sump from everything else.

The sump for the hydraulic system is the rear axle center housing and the hydraulic fluid also lubricates the gears in the rear end.

The hole where the tube from the funnel is going is the level check hole for the rear axle. The fill port for the rear axle/hydraulics is the large plug on the right side of the top of the differential housing, just below where your right butt cheek is when you're sitting on the tractor, part number 35 in the parts drawing at the link below:

[u:d0feca442e]http://partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr66144ar298807[/u:d0feca442e]

The dip stick and tube in the diagram (44 & 46) are only there if the tractor left the factory with a cab, otherwise it's just the level check hole.

You open the level check hole and then fill it from the top fill hole and stop when the fluid just starts to drip out of the level check hole.

RodinNS · May 18, 2015

I'm glad you posted some pics. I don't think I'd ever have imagined what you had without seeing this mess. Must have been a real gomer that put that together...
I think you need to get the oil level back up to the level plug for sure... but I'll also say this... If the tractor lifted the splitter to get it to where it is, it should have oil enough to work. I think you might want to focus more on the ASC valve (the push/pull with the black knob. Try it either fully pushed in or fully pulled out and see what happens. It's also possible that there's an o-ring blown in there and it's not directing oil where it needs to go.

Rod

John I · May 20, 2015

Hi Rod and all !
Thanks for pointing out the filling port.
Probably the reason it doesn't look like you should put oil in the hole is that it's got a hydraulic hose sticking out of it which has got some sort of filler on keeping it in place ( what a mess ).
I'll have to find some other way of filling the oil.

A friend of mine owns a hydraulics company and although he's not into tractors he's giving me 25 lts of oil. Do you think this will be ok.

Once I've getting it filled I'll have a look at that O ring. On the odd occasion the drum at the back has dropped for no reason ( not good if one of the pets is underneath. Could this be the O ring problem.

I'll attach photos of the filling port and the oil I got.

Thanks all !!!! Johm

John I · May 20, 2015

Hi again Folks !
Yippee !!! Got it working thanks to you lot 👍 I had to take the seat off to get at that filling port and filled it like you's said until it started coming out of the hole under the right foot plate. I then titened the grub screw up and added 1/2 litre extra knowing I might have to bleed a little bit air out.

The front bucket was never fast to raise but at least it's working now.
If there is still a bit air in the system, what's the best way to to get it out ? Don't want to start bleeding loads of oil off again.

Cheers - John

RodinNS · May 21, 2015

If that's just plain AW32 hydraulic oil then it's not really correct for that tractor's hydraulic system. These tractors require a Universal Tractor Hydraulic oil which is also a GL4 rated gear lube.... as you should remember this oil is also lubing the rear axle and differential which AW32 is not up to the task of doing. Ford/NewHolland 134D is the spec we use here for those tractors. I'm not sure what they call it in the UK.
As far as bleeding the system.... you don't bleed it, period. That tractor has a gear pump that is self priming so there's no need to bleed air out. Just cycle the hydraulic functions to their limits and it will work the air out in a couple of cycles.

Rod

John I · May 25, 2015

Thanks for your reply Rod. I will get some UTF tomorrow from our local New Holland store.
John

Sean in PA · May 25, 2015

New Holland's brand is pretty pricey, usually 1.5 to 2 times what a generic UTF that meets the 134D spec runs for. You can usually find the generic ones at a good auto parts store and Tractor Supply, and sometimes even Walmart. Sometimes they're called Universal Tractor Fluid, sometimes Universal Tractor/Trans Hydraulic Fluid, sometimes they just say UTF. Just get one that says on the label that it meets or exceeds the Ford/New Holland M2C134D specification and you should be good.

1976 Ford 2600 hydraulic question

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