Loader third hydraulic function addition (grapple)

I'm in the process of adding a grapple to my 1979 Ford 545 w/ 745 Series (19-858) loader. What route is the best for adding the grapple function?

I have a single rear remote already but I would prefer to have the grapple hydraulics hooked up all the time. I've considered three possible ways to do it.

1. Locate and buy a dual remote valve. But that route will be expensive and I'm worried the tractor pump will close the grapple slow.

2. Add two selector valves to the single remote (between the valve body and rear couplers) so I can choose loader third function or rear remotes. This option is pretty inexpensive in the grand scheme but will clutter up the operator area.

3. Figure out how to plumb a generic valve into the loader hydraulic system. I like this option for three reasons, a single remote is comparable in price to the two selector valves, more GPM from the loader pump, and thirdly having the valve located near the loader joystick so there is less reaching around for dumping and clamping.

But I don't know how I'd add option 3. Could I just add a T fitting into the pressure side of the pump before the main loader valve and add a T to the return side? I just don't know if this would work without causing reduced or complete disruption in pressure to the joystick.

I'd like to have everything done so it looks nice and clean rather that hoses, adapters and brackets all over the place. You know, like it came from the factory that way or close to it, and yes I know it wouldn't have. Thanks for the input folks.
 
by my understanding of hydraulics (self taught)

If the loader has it's own pump I would think that your existing loader valve is normally open which means the pressurized fluid enters the 2 spool valve and travels through to return to the sump - you could plumb this return into another normally open single spool valve to run the grapple, just make sure the return port of the new valve goes back to the sump/reservoir.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
(quoted from post at 07:24:21 05/06/15) by my understanding of hydraulics (self taught)

If the loader has it's own pump I would think that your existing loader valve is normally open which means the pressurized fluid enters the 2 spool valve and travels through to return to the sump - you could plumb this return into another normally open single spool valve to run the grapple, just make sure the return port of the new valve goes back to the sump/reservoir.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not 100% sure why, but I've been told that you are not supposed to plumb open center control valves in series unless the upstream valve has a power beyond port. If the tractor has a loader and a backhoe then the control valve for one or the other usually has a power beyond port.

Inserting a control valve with a power beyond port in the line before the loader valve and then using the power beyond port to power the loader and tying the two return ports together with a Tee before returning to the sump would be the proper way to do it.
 
You don't plumb open centers in series because the back pressure on the inlet of the downline valve can cause the original open center valves to activate at will...
I think in your situation I might just look for a 3-4 spool tandem center valve and hook the first pair to a joystick control and the third (and fourth) sections to a standard lever control for the grapple... then sell the original valve. I would stay away from the rear remotes as you already know, that will be slow.

Rod
 
You could install an electric diverter valve on the bucket side of the control valve which would be controlled by a button mounted to the control handle. It will operate the bucket tilt normally and then when you hold the button and operate the bucket handle the oil will be diverted to the 3rd function.

Mark
 
I was going to suggest a 3 spool valve....

I don't understand the PowerBeyond port - I need to see a schematic to get it through my head how it works.

My original suggestion explains why the back blade would drop on my TO30 when I'd lift the FEL or tilt the bucket :)

I suppose a PB port has a check valve to prevent backflow?
 
This does look like a viable option, mildly expensive but do-able. I'd only have to worry about adjusting for hydraulic lines that are currently run to the OEM valve body.
 
My suggestion would be to determine the make of your present valve, most likely Cross or Gresen, then check on line, and you will more likely than not find the same valve configuration except for the 3rd spool to the right of the normal 2 spools.
The left spool having the float position/detent, while the middle & right spools do not have float. Also, most likely, your present hoses will attach to the new valve without any alteration!
HTH, Dave
Edit: It would appear that Gresen might not be available! However, I have 2 loaders, and one has the Gresen valve while the other has the Cross valve. Both valves have identical porting.
 

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