650 - no 3pt

phil_n · Apr 19, 2015

Could someone direct me to a good source of info about troubleshooting the 3pt system? As some of you may know I'm a total greenhorn with this - it's my first tractor. The 3pt does nothing. I think the pump is not pumping. How do I tell? If it turns out that is is pumping what do I do next?

Thanks for any and all help.

phil n

William Fissell · Apr 20, 2015

Pretty straightforward tests

- does the proofmeter/tachnometer work?

- did you check the fluid level using the dipstick in the access cover?

- the hyds pump is on the right hand side of the engine and is driven off the ring gear. There is a hex plug on top of the pump near the front of the pump - ie towards the fornt of the tractor. With the tractor running GENTLY loosen that hex plug and
you should get hyds fluid seeping out. You might get bubbles as well if the pump lost prime. If you get it all the way unscrewed and you *don;t* get a face full of fluid, theres your problem.

- is there a diverter valve under your seat? Its a gizmo wiht a sliding spool valve and a knob.

- post back

old · Apr 20, 2015

One of the first things to do is get the I-T FO-20 manual. Next if check the fluid level. Plus while your getting the manual buy a pressure gauge so you can put it in the test port the see if your getting any pressure at all. You may need to prime the hyd pump also which I think that manual will show you where to do it. Pump has a pipe plug sort of thing which you pull and pour oil in

phil_n · Apr 20, 2015

- Proofmeter doesn't work (the cables frozen with rust) but the drive on the pump goes around.

- topped up fluid

- no life in the prime port, no bubbles, no flow, nothing happening

- no diverter

- am ordering the manual.

Small problem right now trying to get gunge out of gas tank so it will run for more than a few minutes.

I'm thinking of pulling the pump to have a look-see. Read on the net a suggestion about blowing air through the suction tube to see if it's open. Any ideas about that?

Thanks again.

William Fissell · Apr 21, 2015

Interesting. I think if the proofmeter cable is going around your pump is getting driven. If you pour some UTF in the prime port, does the pump spit is back at you?

Its possible the return might be plugged w gunk but I haven't seen it.

souNdguy · Apr 21, 2015

take the plug out int he small cover under the seat.

put about 5psi air to the dipstick port at the hyds sump with engine running, and 3pt lift handle up.

anything?

phil_n · Apr 21, 2015

Thanks. It'll be couple of days before I can get to it. I'm still working on getting the crud out of the tank - gonna try muriatic acid. SWMBO has me running around town today too.

OTOH it's running really well when the fuel is flowing - starts right up and no smoke so far. Learned a tractor lesson yesterday; even tractors can get stuck in wet clay.

64frd4000ind · Apr 21, 2015

In an earlier post you said there was a noise coming from the hyd pump.

Do like they mentioned and pour a bit of oil in through the bleeder plug in the top of the pump and see what happens, if it blows it back out that means the pump is working, just not getting suction.

Since you said the proofmeter connection is turning, but if it will not blow the oil back out the bleeder then you probably have a broken shaft in the hyd pump.

I have seen several on ebay recently, not too overly priced, just watch the shipping cost.

It takes some special tools to rebuild a pump and replace the ball/seats. The rebuild kit is around $50, not sure what a shaft would run, if you can even get one.

If you change out the pump, don't forget to get a new paper gasket, that gasket acts as a shim as well as a sealer between the hyd pump and the gear on the back end of the camshaft. It is a very tight fit when putting it back in place.

Also, they sell replacement proof-meter cables here on the YT site, not too bad a price, but package your order with more than just one thing you need to save on shipping.

64frd4000ind · Apr 21, 2015

Also when putting the pump back on, the hydraulic manifold is cast aluminum, be careful, I found out the hard way each person's 'snug' is different, I broke an ear off of mine, $75 and a 40 mile truck ride later I had another manifold.

Mine torqued to about 20# and then to 30# And I have no leaks so far, that is with new o-rings as well.

phil_n · Apr 23, 2015

My compressor is 'jury-rigged' and I'm not sure I can get down to 5psi - what would happen if I accidentally put more pressure than that in it? Also, what am I looking for to happen?

Thanks

souNdguy · Apr 23, 2015

You are just looking to put some positive pressure in the sump, use a blow gun nozzle and just feed it some with the engine idling, lift handle
up and that plug out under the seat. Lay a rag over the hole. If you are lucky, oil will come out .

phil_n · Apr 23, 2015

Ok, tried that - I missed the rag part but it didn't matter because no matter how much air I put into the dipstick tube nothing came out of the plug on the top. I'm sure I must have had more than 5psi - when it didn't do anything the first time I let the compressor run a bit more, then a bit more, then a bit more... Also no amount of priming has any effect at the pump.

Just realized also forgot the handle part. But...the position/draft control selector is horizontal (position?) and the other one (?) - the big one with the knob on the top, is all the way up.

Sean in PA · Apr 24, 2015

Did you have the tractor running? The air pressure is just supposed to help prime the pump which can only happen when the tractor is running.

phil_n · Apr 24, 2015

Yes, it was idling. What if I try the same routine but with taking the prime plug on the pump out?

Sean in PA · Apr 24, 2015

Yes, the prime plug on the pump is earlier in the circuit, so opening it there and applying some air pressure might get some fluid moving even if you can't get any at the test port on the top plate. If you can't get any out of the prime port on the pump with the air, then I would guess a clogged intake tube.

phil_n · Apr 24, 2015

Thanks. I'll try that when it stops raining.

Maybe the pump's noisy because it's empty.

phil_n · Apr 24, 2015

Here's what I've done. Tried air in the dipstick tube with the prime plug out - nothing. Ended up with so much air that when I pulled the air nozzle out the air blew back out the tube. Same result with motor running/not running. So, took the pump off, blew air into the smaller of the lines in the manifold. Got nothing out of either plug under seat, or dipstick tube. Same reaction with air coming back out of the line after removing the air gun. Does that sound like the line is plugged? Is there anything else that would cause this? I was thinking of just taking the lines off next. Guess I will have to drain the hydraulic tank first.

Meanwhile as I'm working on this thing a guy went driving down our road on a beautifully running, restored maybe 2N (all grey).

Thanks again.

phil_n · Apr 25, 2015

Just took the pump off. Here's the pics:

5 out of the 6 'plungers' (?) were frozen stuck;

bit of crud and gunge inside;

Otherwise, nothing broken, bearing sounds bad, very little crud in the sump.

650 - no 3pt

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