ATF in diesel fuel to compensate lower new fuel less lubrici

Bart CA

Member
Have Ford 2000 and 3000 3 cyl Diesel.
Some people put ATF in fuel to compensate the less lubricity of new fuel. Some put 2 cycle engine oil. What do you think ? Is it better to add fuel additive sold at Napa ect ? What is the proportion of ATF... I/E onces per gallon ?

Thanks in advance

Bart
 
4 oz. of Marvel Mystery Oil per twenty gallon of either gas or diesel. Works for me. I know a lot of people don't believe in it but it works.
 
I use 1 oz. of 2 cycle oil per gallon of diesel and my 3000 seems to run quieter?? My engine shows 4600 hrs and runs good but it seems loud to me. Nothing to really compare though.
 
My only diesel tractor is a new Kubota that was designed for the new ultra low sulfur diesel. I use Power Service in it at the ratio specified on the bottle. Everyone I know with older diesel engines use Power Service also.

ATF has a lot of detergents in it so I don't know if the detergents might be fighting against any added lubricity that other additives in the ATF might be trying to add.
 
From the Marvel Mystery Oil Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), the contents of Marvel Mystery Oil is 70%-80% Naphthenic Hydrocarbons and 20%-30% mineral spirits. Those two components are solvents. A solvent reduces lubricity, it doesn't enhance it. From Marvel Mystery Oil's website, it was designed to remove petroleum based deposits and sludge, so how can it promote lubricity? I don't know. But I know a lot of people use it. As for me, I do not put anything in my diesel fuel tanks but diesel fuel, and nothing in my gas tanks but gasoline.

Gil
 
I use Power Service in the diesel for my tractors and combine. But the main reason I use it is as an anti-gel . I normally run #2 year-round. The lubticity additive is a bonus.
 
Remember, solvent is all perspective

Oil solvates grease...

Water is a solvent, can also be a lubricant in the proper application
 
most ATF has an abrasive additive in it to help the clutches grab. I don't think you want anything abrasive in your diesel fuel. If you must use something go to a Lowes additive or something similar.
 


WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ATF can not have certain friction reducers in it or the clutches will slip. So.. its a very heavy duty oil for extreme high heat uses, that will not break down, will not foam, and will not sludge out and will not dry out orings.

ABSOLUTELY NO ABRASIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I think he's confusing abrasives and friction modifiers...

If I used ATF, however it would be the old type f, etc..
 

I add power service to my modern diesels and two stroke oil at about 1/2 oz to the gallon in the old ones. The two stroke oil is formulated to both lubricate and to burn clean.
 
(quoted from post at 10:35:29 10/30/14) Have Ford 2000 and 3000 3 cyl Diesel.
Some people put ATF in fuel to compensate the less lubricity of new fuel. Some put 2 cycle engine oil. What do you think ? Is it better to add fuel additive sold at Napa ect ? What is the proportion of ATF... I/E onces per gallon ?

Thanks in advance

Bart

I've also heard adding a little biodiesel will help lubricity.
 
For about the last 12 years I have added gear oil to the diesel fuel in my gravel truck as well as all my other diesels. I put it in at a ratio of about 1:200. It really helps with cold weather starting as well as good lubricity (more power is also noticeable). Gear oil has EP (extreme pressure) additive, It's what gives gear oil that special smell. With 10 years on the last engine in frame overhaul on my gravel truck (8V92 Detroit) I removed one head for gasket replacement and to my surprise there were absolutely no ridges in the liners and I attribute that to the use of the gear oil in the fuel.
 
So who actually decided that ULSD has an insufficient amount of lubricity in the fuel? Who decided that ATF or 2 cycle oil is what is needed? For whoever uses one of these as an additive, how much do you think should be added? Is there no faith in what the refinery adds to the fuel?

Funny gear oil was mentioned as having EP additives, those additives can involve sulfur just like diesel. But there are also synthetic EP additives for gear oil, just like for diesel fuel.

Newer diesel fuel injection systems have more smaller parts, tighter tolerances and clearances, operate faster, and produce much higher pressures than older diesel engines. Its the newer ones that you would think needed extra additives right?
 
(quoted from post at 21:33:23 10/30/14) So who actually decided that ULSD has an insufficient amount of lubricity in the fuel? Who decided that ATF or 2 cycle oil is what is needed? For whoever uses one of these as an additive, how much do you think should be added? Is there no faith in what the refinery adds to the fuel?

Funny gear oil was mentioned as having EP additives, those additives can involve sulfur just like diesel. But there are also synthetic EP additives for gear oil, just like for diesel fuel.

Newer diesel fuel injection systems have more smaller parts, tighter tolerances and clearances, operate faster, and produce much higher pressures than older diesel engines. Its the newer ones that you would think needed extra additives right?

This is an opinion only. I believe, that as owners of older equipment, that we are on our own with respect to assessing anything affecting long term wear or life of service, simply because there would be inadequate monetary benefit to anyone undertaking meaningful controlled tests. We do know that sulpher was added for lubricity, therefore many of us, (far from all) believe that it is wise to add a lubricant.
 

There is some good information available on the use of additives in the low sulfur fuel. A google seach on the link below will provide some background info on ULSD and test results for various additives:

Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place: Chevrolet and GNC Diesel Truck Forums
 
(quoted from post at 04:17:14 10/31/14) Remember, solvent is all perspective

Oil solvates grease...

Water is a solvent, can also be a lubricant in the proper application

Well, I don't think that my perspective of Naphthenic Hydrocarbons and mineral spirits changes their properties in any way. They do what they do regardless of my perspective.

I'm not a petro engineer or a petro chemist, but I do know what a solvent is. I really don't care what someone may or may not put in his fuel tank. I was simply stating a fact, those two liquids are solvents.

When I'm cleaning dirty, greasey, oily parts for reassembly, I clean them with mineral spirits because mineral spirits is great to remove oil and oil based paints. That is a fact and it cannot be disproven. Removal of oil, petroleum, and oil based paints is the main selling point of mineral spirits. If I wanted to increase the lubricity of my diesel fuel (and I have no reason to think that I should) and these solvents remove petroleum based compounds, then it is logical to think that these solvents reduce the lubricity of the diesel fuel, just the opposite of the desired results. Perhaps I'm wrong. I have been wrong before.

Again, I'm not a chemist, just an average Joe taking the opportunity to possibly learn something new.

Gil
 
(quoted from post at 19:03:52 10/31/14) What is considered old and what is modern? I have a 1957 diesel, 1966, and a 1975.

The first round of regulations on the amount of sulfur in diesel fuel, 500 ppm or "low sulfur, went into effect for on-road use in 1993 and for off-road use in 2003.

The next round of regulations, 13 ppm or "ultra-low sulfur", went into effect in 2006 for on-road use and in 2010 for off-road use.

So all of your diesel vehicles are older technology in terms of not having been designed with low or ultra-low sulfur diesel in mind.
 
I have both tractors and a '07 Branson, all diesels. I run Power Services products both in my storage tank to keep that clean and in my fuel when refueling.

I don't know if they work or not. The 2000 is a '63 4cyl with right at 3600 hrs, proof meter still working and the 3 cyl 3000 is at about 5200 with an overhaul after I bought it due to the PO running it at construction sites with no air hose between the air filter and intake manifold. I over hauled it back in about '03.

Best I can tell both still have OEM pumps and I have no fuel issues, or valve problems, or any problems ever. I'm happy where I am and things will stay that way.

I lied. Recently I replaced the water pump and fan belt in the 2000 and it seemed to be original. Also I have put new starters in both and the 2000 got a new generator when I bought it.

HTH,
Mark
 

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