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Carburetor

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Rusty_S85

Member
I am looking at getting a new carburetor for my '59 Ford 641 Work Master, I already looked at Dennis-Carpenter and wasnt too impressed with his prices nor selections. I looked here and saw quite a few to pick from and better prices.

My question is if I go with a Zenith one, would it be a straight bolt in? Theres only one photo so I dont know if the linkages and everything will bolt up the same. Both say they fit just # 13878 has a 2 3/8" center to center mounting studs while # 12566 has 2 5/16" centers.

My other question is on the carburetor # 312954, it appears to be a straight stock replacement and appears looks as orignal. Would it be better to go with one of the Zenith ones listed above that will work for a little more money vs going back with the orignal style one?



My problem is this, when the tractor was bought they said sometimes its hard to start. I never had a hard time starting it up, even when it was running 230 degrees. I took it back and they replaced the belt and resolved the overheating issue. But now when I picked it up it was hard to start for them flooding out, and its hard to start for me. Like wise once I do get it running it runs decent but then it acts like its starving for fuel it starts to lose power and if you move the throttle to speed the engine up, it just keeps losing power till it stalls out. From the way its acting I feel my first course of action is to replace the carburetor. I also hope that is the cause of the slight miss that I had today with it, will have to pull the plugs though anyways to check for fouling and clean them up.

Just wanted to ask on the carburetor to see which one would work best.
 
I'm not a fan of the Zeniths, they're a bit more complicated than
the originals, but others have reported good luck with them once
they get them adjusted properly. It should bolt right on, but the
linkage is reversible. Hopefully it will come installed on the
correct side for the tractor you order it for.

I would not expect any of them to just be bolted on and run
perfectly. You will at least need to adjust it for your engine.
If you decide to sell your original, I might be interested in it.
My email is open on modern view.
 

I understand there will be adjustments, I just ment bolt on as in I dont have to take and swap out parts from my orignal onto this one to make it hook up to my factory linkages is all.

Im not sure what I will do with the orignal. I have been thinking about just ordering a rebuild kit and rebuilding it and put it on a shelf for when the new one I get gives me troubles down the road.

I just need to do a fast fix as Ive wasted almost my whole week I took off to get the land I have cleared so I can have the guys come out and dig the tank, level the ground out some and come out and build the building. Just been frustrated with this to the point that I went to a tractor lot the next town over and purchased a diesel Ford 3000 just so I can go ahead and get it finished and I will tinker with this one when I have time.
 
If you want to tinker later, I would pull the original carb and check it for slop. If it is not worn out with a lot of play in the shafts bores and all that, then just rebuild it.


It's not hard to do.

From the sounds of it, if it is flooding and lagging for power and all that, it honestly just sounds like it is dirty inside. You'd be surprised what you can do in 30 minutes with a dirty carb. air compressor with a good blow gun, couple of soft bristle brushes, and a tub of carb cleaner work wonders. I like to get paint gun cleaning kits from the import store as they have a good assortment of brushes and hard sharp wooden skewers.
 
Ive rebuilt many carbs, I just wasnt sure if it was worth rebuilding the orignal one since its flooding out during cranking as well as being sluggish and everything.

Thing that really gets me is youll be going along running fine then you start losing power try to give it more throttle and the engine starts to go into a dieseling lope till it stalls out. Another thing is it will not idle you try to close the throttle fully to idle and it does the same thing and stalls out. For idle I am not sure, but under speed it seems like its running out of fuel. Might be flooding out though. I know during cranking after about 10 seconds or so of cranking you have fuel start dripping out of the carburetor. Remove the air inlet hose and fuel pours out so I know its flooding it out making it hard to start.

If rebuilding will correct the issues without causing me more headaches after rebuilding, I have no problem disassembling the carb and overhauling it. Plus a master rebuild kit I see is priced at $47 which is way cheaper than $200.

I think I will just try the rebuild route, I still need to get a proof meter for it as mine bounces around the 0 mark when the engine is running at any speed so thus my hour meter does not move. I also need to replace my ammeter cause now with the key off it sits on -30 Amps, guess I burned it up using jumper cables to jumper the tractor as the battery kept getting runned down cranking on it to get it running.
 
Ok, I rebuilt the carb, set the float at 1/4" for the closest part of the float to the carb.

Got it installed and the thing was still flooding out. Took the carb back apart and set the float to 1/2" and now it does not flood out when sitting but cranking on it it doesnt start up at first if you stop fuel comes out of the air inlet on the carb which I saw cause I had the hose disconnected. I finally got the tractor to start up and it ran, but the problem I run into is that right as the temp gets to 140*F the engine starts to go into a diesel mode where even at full throttle the engine just sits there spinning over at what sounds like 200 RPM before finally stalling out. Then it will not start till after it has sat for a while. Fuel pours out of the air inlet in the carb as well.

I am currently at a lost on this, and this tractor is very close to being taken back to where it was bought from for a full refund as it is a lemon considering that Ive had to waste my time and fuel driving 200 miles round trip twice now because the thing didnt run even though this tractor had been completly rebuilt engine wise.

Kind of wondering on that since the belt was reused and it was slipping resulting in my overheating issue, then their fix for the leaking push rod cover was to just clean it off and smear some red RTV on it then spray it with more Ford Red tractor paint, which by the way never works and sure enough I got oil all down the side of the block as the RTV is peeling off due to the oil and heat.

In any case, I am going through my shop manual and at the point of just throwing parts at it, new carb, new dist, new coil and see if that corrects the issues.

As far as the carb goes, I have the idle fuel mixture set at 2 turns out from bottom, and the power adjustment is set 1 full turn out from bottom. I set it to 2 once the temp is over 100 degrees the thing doesnt seem to want to take the fuel but that could be cause the carb is still flooding out even with the float set at 1/2" vs the 1/4" it should be set at. I know its not overfilling as it sits cause it sat for almost an hour with the fuel open after I installed it and it never poured fuel out of the carb intake. After it stalled out on me when I recranked it after letting it sit for 20 minutes, when it stalled out on me after I moved it back to where it was at before I could see fuel pouring out of the air intake hose.

To the point of just writing this thing off as a lemon and getting money back on it.
 
(quoted from post at 21:48:48 11/08/14) Ok, I rebuilt the carb, set the float at 1/4" for the closest part of the float to the carb.

Got it installed and the thing was still flooding out. Took the carb back apart and set the float to 1/2" and now it does not flood out when sitting but cranking on it it doesnt start up at first if you stop fuel comes out of the air inlet on the carb which I saw cause I had the hose disconnected. I finally got the tractor to start up and it ran, but the problem I run into is that right as the temp gets to 140*F the engine starts to go into a diesel mode where even at full throttle the engine just sits there spinning over at what sounds like 200 RPM before finally stalling out. Then it will not start till after it has sat for a while. Fuel pours out of the air inlet in the carb as well.

I am currently at a lost on this, and this tractor is very close to being taken back to where it was bought from for a full refund as it is a lemon considering that Ive had to waste my time and fuel driving 200 miles round trip twice now because the thing didnt run even though this tractor had been completly rebuilt engine wise.

Kind of wondering on that since the belt was reused and it was slipping resulting in my overheating issue, then their fix for the leaking push rod cover was to just clean it off and smear some red RTV on it then spray it with more Ford Red tractor paint, which by the way never works and sure enough I got oil all down the side of the block as the RTV is peeling off due to the oil and heat.

In any case, I am going through my shop manual and at the point of just throwing parts at it, new carb, new dist, new coil and see if that corrects the issues.

As far as the carb goes, I have the idle fuel mixture set at 2 turns out from bottom, and the power adjustment is set 1 full turn out from bottom. I set it to 2 once the temp is over 100 degrees the thing doesnt seem to want to take the fuel but that could be cause the carb is still flooding out even with the float set at 1/2" vs the 1/4" it should be set at. I know its not overfilling as it sits cause it sat for almost an hour with the fuel open after I installed it and it never poured fuel out of the carb intake. After it stalled out on me when I recranked it after letting it sit for 20 minutes, when it stalled out on me after I moved it back to where it was at before I could see fuel pouring out of the air intake hose.

To the point of just writing this thing off as a lemon and getting money back on it.
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like an ignition problem. First a few observations: "Dieseling" is usually used to describe running on after turning the ignition off, therefore I don't understand what you are referring to by "dieseling." Second when you put an updraft carburetor together with down-pulling gravity, any time that you use the choke to start, and it doesn't fire up within about three revolutions, and you release the start button, the liquid gas in the rich, gas-air mixture in the manifold, is all going to come back down and run out the carb intake. I don't believe that you are flooding. Third, I don't see where you said that you took a spark plug reading. Are they wet? sooty? do they even spark when it won't start? Fourth: two turns on the load screw is good, load screw adjustment, however, doesn't even come into play except as you approach max load. Fifth I didn't look up float level, but 1/4 inch is close, but I think that it may be too low to run, while there is no way that it will let any gas through at 1/2 inch from the top.
 
(quoted from post at 06:08:25 11/09/14)
(quoted from post at 21:48:48 11/08/14) Ok, I rebuilt the carb, set the float at 1/4" for the closest part of the float to the carb.

Got it installed and the thing was still flooding out. Took the carb back apart and set the float to 1/2" and now it does not flood out when sitting but cranking on it it doesnt start up at first if you stop fuel comes out of the air inlet on the carb which I saw cause I had the hose disconnected. I finally got the tractor to start up and it ran, but the problem I run into is that right as the temp gets to 140*F the engine starts to go into a diesel mode where even at full throttle the engine just sits there spinning over at what sounds like 200 RPM before finally stalling out. Then it will not start till after it has sat for a while. Fuel pours out of the air inlet in the carb as well.

I am currently at a lost on this, and this tractor is very close to being taken back to where it was bought from for a full refund as it is a lemon considering that Ive had to waste my time and fuel driving 200 miles round trip twice now because the thing didnt run even though this tractor had been completly rebuilt engine wise.

Kind of wondering on that since the belt was reused and it was slipping resulting in my overheating issue, then their fix for the leaking push rod cover was to just clean it off and smear some red RTV on it then spray it with more Ford Red tractor paint, which by the way never works and sure enough I got oil all down the side of the block as the RTV is peeling off due to the oil and heat.

In any case, I am going through my shop manual and at the point of just throwing parts at it, new carb, new dist, new coil and see if that corrects the issues.

As far as the carb goes, I have the idle fuel mixture set at 2 turns out from bottom, and the power adjustment is set 1 full turn out from bottom. I set it to 2 once the temp is over 100 degrees the thing doesnt seem to want to take the fuel but that could be cause the carb is still flooding out even with the float set at 1/2" vs the 1/4" it should be set at. I know its not overfilling as it sits cause it sat for almost an hour with the fuel open after I installed it and it never poured fuel out of the carb intake. After it stalled out on me when I recranked it after letting it sit for 20 minutes, when it stalled out on me after I moved it back to where it was at before I could see fuel pouring out of the air intake hose.

To the point of just writing this thing off as a lemon and getting money back on it.
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like an ignition problem. First a few observations: "Dieseling" is usually used to describe running on after turning the ignition off, therefore I don't understand what you are referring to by "dieseling." Second when you put an updraft carburetor together with down-pulling gravity, any time that you use the choke to start, and it doesn't fire up within about three revolutions, and you release the start button, the liquid gas in the rich, gas-air mixture in the manifold, is all going to come back down and run out the carb intake. I don't believe that you are flooding. Third, I don't see where you said that you took a spark plug reading. Are they wet? sooty? do they even spark when it won't start? Fourth: two turns on the load screw is good, load screw adjustment, however, doesn't even come into play except as you approach max load. Fifth I didn't look up float level, but 1/4 inch is close, but I think that it may be too low to run, while there is no way that it will let any gas through at 1/2 inch from the top.
Click to expand...

I understand that, but in this case dieseling is the best way I can describe it. The engine is running at such a low rpm that wide open throttle its just barely idling and sounds like a engine would when it diesels after the key is turned off. It starts doing this after the engine hits 140*. Let it sit a few and it cranks up and runs fine till it warms up some then it does it again.

I was thinking ignition, but the thing is hard to start to the point that the battery goes pretty much dead. When we first got it two weeks ago or so, it would fire off right away real fast and quick and ran great. Just would overheat. Took it back to the tractor lot we got it from they fixed that but ever since then its been doing this. They said its hard to start sometimes but we never had that and now its always hard to start. This comes after they ran the tractor for almost a full 8 hour day at a very high RPM to see if it would over heat.

I am wondering if it really is ignition related but I hate to buy a coil, cap, rotor, plugs, wires and change it all out and it still does the same thing. Been thinking about doing the points elimination down the road guess I could always just go ahead and do the conversion now and go from there.
 
After you get it started and it starts to stumble, does
pulling the choke out a bit help it or hurt it? Have you
checked spark right when it quits? Easy and quick to do.
140 degrees is barely warm, not even normal operating temp.
Seems odd to me that it would act up there.
 
(quoted from post at 20:57:34 11/09/14) After you get it started and it starts to stumble, does
pulling the choke out a bit help it or hurt it? Have you
checked spark right when it quits? Easy and quick to do.
140 degrees is barely warm, not even normal operating temp.
Seems odd to me that it would act up there.
Click to expand...

Pulling choke out half ways makes no difference, going full choke stalls the engine out.

The first time it did that I was at full throttle otherwise it would just drop dead at 140* but I closed the throttle slightly and played with it then the engine cleared out and started running fine, but then in the matter of 20 seconds or so it started doing the same slow RPM barely running speed like a engine dieseling over after the key is turned off and then stalls out.

Thats why I just dont think its ignition because it seems like its loading up on fuel. But I have new ignition components coming in even a Petronix points elimination kit.

As far as the spark goes, tried it at first didnt seem to be sparking moments after it stalled out but after a few minutes trying again I could hear it snaping as it was jumping the gap from the coil wire to the dist cap.

That is mainly why I went ahead and got a new coil, plugs, wires, cap and rotor coming in along with the Petronix. Atleast I can rule this out considering god knows how old this stuff is anyways.

I didnt check the plugs how ever, was too upset with it to think straight cause as of now have mixed feelings about keeping it or hauling it back to town and demanding money back on it.
 
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