641 hydraulic check valve valve seat removal

Removed my lift cover today on a 1959 641 to correct bobbing and implement dropping after shut-off.

Two questions -

Attempting to remove Check Valve. Manual calling for NCA-997 tool which of cause I do not have. What size, length and thread BOLT do I need. Guess 1/4, 4 inch, fine thread??? But only want to make one trip to town so please advise.

Second question - when I removed the accessory plate the safety valve cavity was full of oil. Is that normal or does that indicate the safety valve was pupping off? My first cover removal, so do not know why I would assume anything, but assumed the cavity around the safety to be empty.

(quoted from post at 18:41:18 09/26/14) Removed my lift cover today on a 1959 641 to correct bobbing and implement dropping after shut-off.

Two questions -

Attempting to remove Check Valve. Manual calling for NCA-997 tool which of cause I do not have. What size, length and thread BOLT do I need. Guess 1/4, 4 inch, fine thread??? But only want to make one trip to town so please advise.

Second question - when I removed the accessory plate the safety valve cavity was full of oil. Is that normal or does that indicate the safety valve was pupping off? My first cover removal, so do not know why I would assume anything, but assumed the cavity around the safety to be empty.

Click to expand...

ore than one dump into that drain back path, so something else could have filled it.

http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=40634

Thanks JMOR - that is the infer in needed

Some how I have to learn how to do better searches on this site - -
even with you pointing me to the correct posting I search and get
back like 6000 pages and they start with current date... and you
answer is in a posting from 2001 - - I just can't seem to ever get
there. Is there some directions some place that will help me master
SEARCHES and POSTING using the Modern View.

(quoted from post at 20:29:51 09/26/14) Thanks JMOR - that is the infer in needed

Some how I have to learn how to do better searches on this site - -
even with you pointing me to the correct posting I search and get
back like 6000 pages and they start with current date... and you
answer is in a posting from 2001 - - I just can't seem to ever get
there. Is there some directions some place that will help me master
SEARCHES and POSTING using the Modern View.

Click to expand...

he link I gave goes directly to Zane's post with bolt size.........I don't see a problem there.

Searches in general ..........well, that is a different matter. Not the best in the world, but I know of worse. No tips really, just a matter of guessing the right key word or phrase. P.S., I didn't search for the link that I posted. I remembered that I had saved it because of the bolt size, way back when, so it was a 10 second deal for me, to one 'remember', then tractors/hyd/hundred series/

on the searches,
use google instead, be specific.
You can add yesterdaytractors in the search line too,
even without yesterdays tractors in the line,
google will return some hits on your search.
There will be at least one from here,
then click on 'more results from yesterdaystractors'

or you can do what I do when I get an unfamiliar model or job.
Go to the archives here, and type the model or job in the search box.
I get thousands of returns.
Then I read them all....
takes days.
Better than a good book or TV though, and when I'm done
that new tractor will be as familiar as an old friend, before I ever walk into the shop.

JMOR - sorry if I mis-lead your link was right on and it gave me the
info in needed. What I was saying is that it bothers me that I can
not search and find the information on my own .... when it is there
some place in the site. Hate to keep bugging you knowable
helpful people when the information has already been provided and
I just can't find it.

Thanks again... and NNP I will try your Google search approach.

(quoted from post at 08:34:05 09/27/14) JMOR - sorry if I mis-lead your link was right on and it gave me the
info in needed. What I was saying is that it bothers me that I can
not search and find the information on my own .... when it is there
some place in the site. Hate to keep bugging you knowable
helpful people when the information has already been provided and
I just can't find it.

Thanks again... and NNP I will try your Google search approach.

Click to expand...

ot a problem.........helps me keep remembering, kind of like 'dynamic refresh' in computer memory. :wink:

Just thought I would post this check valve picture - may help someone in the future with lift problems.

I could not find 3/8 all-thread with fine threads locally here on a Sat Morning - so got a 6 inch 3/8 bolt and just extended the threads a bit. was not stuck but did need to pull it completely out with force. 3/8 - 24 6 inch gets it.

Picture is as it came out. Also had to put it back in with force. I stood my cover on end so could drop the spring and back pressure in and insure it centered and stayed there while forcing the check valve in. Hope I got it but will not know until I get it back on and tested.

Any evidence that the check valve cap and ball (not seat) has been out before?

Ford changed the size of the ball/seat sometime in the late 1950s (manuals in file). The ball is easily changed while the seat is not. It is not unheard of for a PO or "mechanic" to install a new ball without checking the serial number break. The ball must match the seat for proper performance.

The serial numbers, ball dimensions, etc. are well covered in the manuals (Ford and I & T, I believe).

Inspect both ball and seat for any evidence of wear, damage or mismatch.

If you install a new ball and seat, be certain to seat the ball into the seat. I use a new ball of the correct size that I will later discard and a brass draft (steel punch is OK if you do, indeed, discard the "seating" ball).

With the lift cover vertical, drop the "seat ball" into the seat and seat the ball into the new seat with the drift and suitable hammer. (I strike the drift once solidly with a 2 lb. hammer.) Discard the "seat ball" and install another new identical ball.

Done.

FWIW, it is routine to find oil in the cavity where the safety valve is installed. Inspect the sefety valve for visual evidence of damage and install a new copper washer. The safety valve can be changed without removing the lift cover so there is no need to replace it unless you find evidence of failure. I would not trust an aftermarket safety valve and, especially, relief valve.

Dean

Dean - thanks for the info - No I did not see and sign of wear on ball or seat. Seen in the manual that they changed size so had not consider change ball unless I also had to change seat or seen wear.

But you now have me thinking and I may pull the cap and ball again just so I can measure it. Do not have the best calipers.

I will have to say I really did not see anything that jumped out at me as to why it would have been failing. Ball sets on seat good - o-rings did to look that bad. (But replaced with NCHs) Had a very little bit of grease/gunk in the back pressure spring - but think my picture was as soon as it came out - and as you can see picture does not show much.

So do not know if I really expect it to correct the problem or not.

Give me a hint as to where I may find a new ball if it is needed. Know I will not get the old style from NCH. Machine Shop - Fasteners Shop?

Relief valved looked OK - I think - - The brass washer was very thin shouldered and seem chew up a bit.. Could not find one local that was exact match .... did find one that had a little wider shoulder that fit the valve snug and seems to set very good on the flat surface of the cavity. So plan to use that one.

Guess I put all the new o-rings on the accessory plate (My remote valve) and see if I made it better or worse.

It's been awhile but, IIRC, a friend of mine brought home several ball bearings of the correct size for mine.

The balls, both old and new, are standard size ball bearing balls available (in quantity) from bearing suppliers.

IIRC, my friend had his maintenance dept order a lot of 50 (?) of the old size.

Dean