Got started on the 4400 power steering today

Ultradog MN

Well-known Member
Location
Twin Cities
I ran this tractor all winter with no PS. I just took the pump off and used armstrong.
I finally put the pump on a couple of weeks ago but the steering cylinder leaked like a sieve.
I wasn't going to go through the front end this year but have no choice.
So today I finally had some time - and it wasn't raining - to start disassembling the front end.
I did wonder when Rube Goldberg started working for Ford Tractor Division as it seems like an overly complicated system to me.
I think it was FordFarmer who had such a problem getting the tapered pin #24 out of there. Mine came out pretty easy with a plaster chisel for a wedge and a bfh.
Anyway, I got the cylinder out and tomorrow will drop the front axle and take the rest of the linkage apart to clean and inspect.
I will also disassemble the cylinder and actuator and reseal it.
I think this bolster and ps system is the same as an early 5000.


4400steering1.jpg



100_1733.jpg
 
What did you wedge against? That pin is very, very stuck on my 4500. I've hammered, I tried to get a puller to stay on there (difficult-to-impossible) I've tried heat, I haven't resorted to burning it out (tractor shop suggestion - along with "it will catch on fire - have a fire extinguisher handy." Hadn't though of wedging, perhaps it will be more obvious if I look at it with that in mind, but I'm not recalling much. My main steering gear decided it was not fond of armstrong and expired on me, too. Driving that thing is slow and interesting and involves a lot of lifting the nose with the bucket to point the wheels...

Now, I also have crappy access because, being a 4500, I haven't got the nose off it, since that in itself is a major task and involves further disabling of the tractor and I still have too many other projects on various burners.
 
Want to update to integral p/s? There's a guy who
sells parts on ebay who is parting a 7000. Steering
box should be a bolt-on. Just need different oil
lines.
 
Yes, the bolster and p/s are the same as the early 5000's.
And yes, it was me who had trouble getting that tapered pin out. A 2 1/2# hammer and the longest punch I have finally did the job, but the pin wasn't usable any more. Another example of NH being proud of their parts - it was about $70, IIRC.
5000basketcasesteering006_zpsfd4df6ef.jpg
 
That might work. I've been contemplating a homebrew "full hydraulic" but I did note that Ford themselves came out with a full hydraulic (I assume what you are calling integral - steering motor in the steering box, no mechanical linkage) system that seemed a lot less kludgy (and also looks more robust) within a few years, and I assume that would be one of them.

Ah, I see that's a little different - the power is at the steering box, and applied via the linkage.
 
I was thinking today while I was disassembling this thing that a guy could swap in an early 4000 (3 cyl) side arm PS to one of these things pretty easily.
Would require you cut and weld the tie rod and tighten up the two set screws #14 so #13 was tight. That's really about all it would take.
Looking at Messicks and seeing that a new cylinder and actuator for one of these tractors is most of $1700 got me thinking about it.
I have a spare side arm here and if I found this one was not rebuildable for one reason or another that's the route I would go - especially since I plan to use this tractor as an AP unit and don't plan to ever put a loader on it.
A guy could do the same thing on an early 5000 as well.
By the way Mark, I'm wondering if a machine shop couldn't have saved that pin for you cheaper than buying a new one. Those are just 5/8" NF threads and it can't be too hard judging by the deforming you did. Or even buy a new or used die off of Ebay and do it yourself.
Something to think about should the need ever arise again.
 
Call it what you want, but that system works VERY well properly setup and adjusted. I've overhauled many of those, very successfully. It's only downside is that it needs to be adjusted on occasion to compensate for linkage wear.

For the poster who has a hard time removing the tapered pin: remove the entire assembly as one piece, then you can thread the nut on flush and beat it out very easy with a BFH.
 
4000's box won't work here, even if it fits. 4000's push the drag link forward for a left turn; pushing your drag link forward will turn your tires right.
 
Ford used a hydrostatic steering system (no
mechanical linkage) on their '67 and newer rowcrops.
They didn't use that on the utility models until the
'90's, I think.
I had an early 5000 that the PO had converted to
hydrostatic steering - he used part of a combine
steering column and hooked it into the lines from
the p/s pump and the cylinder under the radiator.
Worked pretty good, but wandered some, especially at
road speed.
 
[i:654c4848f0]"remove the entire assembly as one piece, then you can thread the nut on flush and beat it out very easy with a BFH."[/i:654c4848f0]

Trying to understand you Bern.
Assembly = the entire bolster and axle?
That tapered pin locks the back end of the cylinder into the bolster.
I did figure out if you disconnect the outer tie rods you could drop the axle out from under it and then get a swing at that pin. I didn't need to do that to remove my pin but did knock those outer tie rods loose and will drop the axle out today.
 
(quoted from post at 01:00:11 07/26/14) Ford used a hydrostatic steering system (no
mechanical linkage) on their '67 and newer rowcrops.
They didn't use that on the utility models until the
'90's, I think.
I had an early 5000 that the PO had converted to
hydrostatic steering - he used part of a combine
steering column and hooked it into the lines from
the p/s pump and the cylinder under the radiator.
Worked pretty good, but wandered some, especially at
road speed.

True, the utility chassis didn't get full hydrostatic steering until later, but the 545 Industrial had full hydrostatic steering starting in 1978.
 
No, that tapered pin #24 connects the cylinder end cap to the steering arm #12. The pin that connects the cylinder rod to the bolster is a straight pin (#27), and comes out easily.

I remove the steering arm and cylinder as one unit, and then drive out the tapered pin. I do NOT remove the bolster.

If I were you, I'd fix that system up and re-use it, instead of trying to convert it to some other steering. You really will like it - it will steer almost as good as a Deere!
 
I have an '82 5610 with the mechanical linkage "power assist" steering, and an '89 5610-II with the "full hydrostatic" steering. I wonder if the change came with the "series 2" tractors?
 
I guess I should have said ag utility models. I'm
not surprised that some industrial models had
hydrostatic steering before all the ag models did.
 
That's very possible. Almost all the "II's" around
here are rowcrop models, so they would have the
hydrostatic system anyway...
 
(quoted from post at 09:32:22 07/26/14) If I were you, I'd fix that system up and re-use it, instead of trying to convert it to some other steering. You really will like it - it will steer almost as good as a Deere!
I have to say the "full hydrostatic" on my 5610-II doesn't work almost as good as a Deere, it works just as good as a Deere!
Head & shoulders above the "power assist" on the older 5610!
JMHO, dave
 
I dunno.... I ~cough~ kinda have to give the edge to Deere on steering ~cough cough~.......
The 10 series hydrostatic is good but it's not pinky finger light. Ford is still a better tractor tho LOL

Rod
 
Just got off work here and am going to have at it again.
You are correct - pin # 24 connects the cylinder to that steering arm.
I don't have a pickle fork wide enough to knock the inner tie rods loose so I had to remove the tapered pin and the big pin # 16. I will drop the axle to clean and paint it so the steering arm - with tie rods attached - will drop out the bottom of the bolster when I get the axle off. Will knock the tie rods off then.
I do plan to reuse this system. For the few minutes I had it running it steered very easily but puked a cup of fluid out of the end of the cylinder shaft seal.
And, Fordfarmer is correct; the 4000 and 4400 steering boxes turn the opposite direction though the boxes themselves look identical..
I went through the old style box on both models and didn't notice that. They must have made the ball nut screw left hand on one shaft and RH on the other.
Interesting.
 
What I always did on those inner tie rod ends is to remove the lock nuts and then thread on a standard 5/8 NF nut flush to the top of the threads. I would then set up a bottle jack from underneath to support the bottom of the steering arm, then whack the top of the tie rod end with a really big punch and a BFH from the top, radiator removed of course. Works really well when the steering arm is supported solid with the bottle jack, plus it prevents any possible damage to the steering arm.
 
I agree with Rod - the hydrostatic was still not quite as good as a Deere, but you're right also, it was far better than the old power assist box, which by the way was just fine for a 2WD tractor w/o loader.
 
I don't think the full changover came until probably the Force II introduction... but hydro was available from 82. We had an 85 5610, 2WD AP white decal... with full hydrostatic. I didn't know until years later that most of them had power assist....

Rod
 
To the best of my knowledge, hydrostatic steering came to the straddle mount tractors (56-66-7610s) in April 1985. Prior to that, they all had the power assist box. When you say hydro was available since 1982, I assume you mean the flat decks? However, hydro was used on the flat decks since the beginning of time, really.
 
I've never really looked at the start date of the hydro steering on the AP's... all I know is that our 5610 was either an april or may 85 romeo build. She's gone a long time now and I don't have the unit number close at hand but it seems it was late april. I know it was only days apart from my 7710 which was an april 30 build..
My understanding had been that manual steering had been available, power assist had been standard and hydro was an option... but I've truthfully never researched the subject.

Rod
 
I'm interested to hear how the rebuild went. Was the cylinder salvageable? Is the factory steering any good? Thanks!
 

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