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Hydraulic position control slides really easy? Super trac 30

J

jwjsr

Member
Almost feels too easy and think I have to pull the position control lever further up to get lift when in implement control mode.
I changed the hydraulics fluid with the cheapest UTF I could find at Tractor Supply, label says it meets All specs. SuperS super trac 303.

I suspect this may be because I this UTF is probably thinner than what I replaced which was likely 80-90w fluid?
WJ
 
Did the label specify that it meets the Ford/New Holland M2C134D specification? "303" was an old John Deere fluid that was older than the modern UTF's, and all of the "303" fluids that I have seen usually just say some thing like "fine for all older tractors" or something like that, but they don't list any specific manufacturers specs that they actually meet, and they don't have some of the additives that newer UTF's have that allow them to meet the 134D specification, and that's why they are so inexpensive.
 
The Super S Super Trac 303 does not meet the Ford M2C134-D specs. The company recommends using their "Super S Premium UTF" to meet the Ford M2C134-D spec.
 
(quoted from post at 12:02:01 07/17/14) Did the label specify that it meets the Ford/New Holland M2C134D specification? "303" was an old John Deere fluid that was older than the modern UTF's, and all of the "303" fluids that I have seen usually just say some thing like "fine for all older tractors" or something like that, but they don't list any specific manufacturers specs that they actually meet, and they don't have some of the additives that newer UTF's have that allow them to meet the 134D specification, and that's why they are so inexpensive.
Click to expand...

That almost makes me want to try and get a refund?
 
You originally said:

label says it meets All specs.
Click to expand...

I asked if it specifically lists the M2C1234D specification. From Googling the product name and looking at the web site it says:

SuperTrac 303 Tractor Hydraulic Fluid is designed for use as a replacement fluid for the hydraulic, wet brake, and transmission requirements of equipment manufacturers where a product of this quality is recommended, including:
Allis Chalmers
Allison
Caterpillar
Deutz
Ford Tractor
International Harvester
J I Case/David Brown
John Deere 303, J20A
Kubota
Massey Ferguson
Oliver
White
Click to expand...

It doesn't specifically list the Ford M2C134D specification. In fact, it doesn't list any specific specification for any of those manufacturers. Then it goes on to say:

[i:af42e7ff5b]
Misapplication may cause severe performance problems. 303 Tractor Hydraulic Fluid has not been recommended by any OEM for model years later than 1974. For equipment built after 1974 requiring multi-functional fluid, use Super S Premium Universal Tractor Hydraulic Fluid (J20C)
Click to expand...
/i:af42e7ff5b]

It doesn't even say that it is recommended for all tractors made prior to 1974, it just says that it has not been recommended for any tractors made after 1974.

You can try getting your money back, but I doubt that you will.
 
1 i guarantee you the oil you used isn't making the difference!

2 that oil misses the 134d spec due to viscosity differences

3, the original ford oil that shipped with those tractors don't meet 134d spec either!! 134 spec is a MUCH MUCH MUCH later oil spec that was applied to superceede the OLDER ford oil specs.

the oil in the sump has no bearing on how easy it is to move the 3pt handle. that is a function of the friction disc!! and somewhat on the resistance of the internal linkages.

position control and positioning on an 8n+ will be a function of cam and cam pin relationship.

I believe you will find that cheap utf to be mostly different looking at it cold.. when it may be like molassis vs oil...
 
(quoted from post at 19:33:22 07/17/14) 1 i guarantee you the oil you used isn't making the difference!

2 that oil misses the 134d spec due to viscosity differences

3, the original ford oil that shipped with those tractors don't meet 134d spec either!! 134 spec is a MUCH MUCH MUCH later oil spec that was applied to superceede the OLDER ford oil specs.

the oil in the sump has no bearing on how easy it is to move the 3pt handle. that is a function of the friction disc!! and somewhat on the resistance of the internal linkages.

position control and positioning on an 8n+ will be a function of cam and cam pin relationship

I believe you will find that cheap utf to be mostly different looking at it cold.. when it may be like molassis vs oil...
Click to expand...

Since I don't know what normal tension should FEEL like I can't say anything is wrong. I can say the tension FEELS like it might only stay where I position it with the assistance of the position stop thingy with the wing nut on it.
Also of note- I flushed it with your special formula after draining the old.
Soundguy, I think your saying it should be fine in the deep south??
 

Better get ready to sue the people who sold you that oil... ;)

Even with a good working touch control there should be some friction from the springs you are working against under the cover.

There is suppose to be a cork friction disc that is under the big washer on the outside of the touch control shaft. There should be a spring under that outside nut pressing against the washer and hence cork. If no cork present either make a new one or buy one from CNH or this site...
 
(quoted from post at 23:57:32 07/17/14)
Better get ready to sue the people who sold you that oil... ;)

Even with a good working touch control there should be some friction from the springs you are working against under the cover.

There is suppose to be a cork friction disc that is under the big washer on the outside of the touch control shaft. There should be a spring under that outside nut pressing against the washer and hence cork. If no cork present either make a new one or buy one from CNH or this site...
Click to expand...
Yes, I am gonna need your address too. :lol:
Even if the cork etc isn't there it doesn't explain the sudden loss of friction unless it went out at the same time I changed the fluid.?
 
Missing or bad friction disk (cork washer) could have been the case all along and it was just harder to move because the shaft could have been sticking due to old crud inside the system, and flushing things out might have freed it up.
 
(quoted from post at 08:45:34 07/18/14) Missing or bad friction disk (cork washer) could have been the case all along and it was just harder to move because the shaft could have been sticking due to old crud inside the system, and flushing things out might have freed it up.
Click to expand...
Sean, sounds plausible, hopefully that is the case.
I forgot to mention it is a 71 --4000, but appears everyone figured it out.
 
Rear fluid in a 3 cyl 4000 should not have been 80/90, that is gear oil, rear and hyds are common, thus utf,

and if a 3 cly 4000, I'd look at the tension nut on the quad, always tell us 3 or 4 cyl up front, different machines
 
Try tightening the nut at the end of the shaft that the control handle pivots on to see if it's just loose. If tightening it won't keep it in place on its own, then you need to replace the friction disk.
 
(quoted from post at 12:43:00 07/18/14) Try tightening the nut at the end of the shaft that the control handle pivots on to see if it's just loose. If tightening it won't keep it in place on its own, then you need to replace the friction disk.
Click to expand...
Ok, will do and thanks to all.
The 7 or 8 gallons I drained a couple of weeks ago looks fine, what can I do with it?
 
(quoted from post at 12:43:00 07/18/14) Try tightening the nut at the end of the shaft that the control handle pivots on to see if it's just loose. If tightening it won't keep it in place on its own, then you need to replace the friction disk.
Click to expand...
Maybe since I have 3cyl it doesn't take a friction disk? YT part says for 2000, 4000 4 cyl.
 
(quoted from post at 13:00:13 07/18/14)
Maybe since I have 3cyl it doesn't take a friction disk? YT part says for 2000, 4000 4 cyl.
Click to expand...

YT might not sell the one for the 3 cylinder 4000 but it has one. Here's the parts drawing for the lift cover and control handle for a 3 cylinder 4000:

[u:3a871b4bbe]Ford 3 cylinder 4000 lift cover parts diagram[/u:3a871b4bbe]

The nut that you want to try tightening first is numbered 27 in that diagram.

The friction disk is numbered 32 in the drawing. For a 3 cylinder 4000 ag chassis model the part number for the friction disk is 83977032. You should be able to get them at any New Holland dealership.
 
Sean, got one, thanks for the part#, I'm gonna leave that cheap super S 303 in there until it starts acting up, my conscience bothers me enough to change, or I get the balls tho ask Tractor Supply for a refund.
WJ
 
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