Ford 2000 battery not charging

So the clogged fuel filter wasn't the only problem I had with my 1966 Ford 2000 3-cyl gas 4-spd. My battery is not getting charged.

After charging the battery for a good while on an electric charger, I checked the voltage while hooked to the tractor with the key off. It read about 12.4 volts. I started the tractor, and voltage began to fluctuate between 12.2 and 12.3 volts. As I understand, voltage between the battery terminals should be more like 13.5 to 14 volts in order to effectively charge the battery.

Another test a friend had me try was disconnecting the battery cable while the tractor was running, though I have heard that this is not always a valid test. My tractor stops running when I do this. Should it have kept running under alternator power?

I have seen some discussions on alternators vs generators. Does the 1966 3-cyl gas use an alternator or generator, and what is the difference?

Does anyone have a wiring diagram that shows what wires should be connected to the voltage regulator? My voltage regulator only has one wire connected to it. Unless it gets positive voltage from the frame (My tractor is wired with a positive ground) I would expect there to be more than one wire attached. The voltage regulator has about 6 places to connect wires, but only one is connected. The first pin on the left is empty, the second has a thin wire running to it, and the rest are empty.

Just out of curiosity, were the Ford 2000 tractors originally wired for 6 volts, or did they all have 12-volt systems from the start?
 
Wow. .. your tractor sounds like it has all kinds of problems.

a 3 cyl 2000 left the factor 12v, negative ground, with a lucas genny.

a genny is more shaped like a short 2 litre soda.. an alternator is nore like a cantalope in size. kinda as round as it is wide.. whereas the genny is a long cylinder.

you CAN get an alt that is 1 wire, and while you can get 1 wire generators.. the lucas on that machine was not 1 wire.

if it has the oem lucas genny.. then with only 1 wire hooked up to the vreg.. you have a problem!

at a bare minimum, the genny needs a field wire and an armature wire.. it's case is ground.

the vreg needs a ground ref, a field wire an armature wire and a load/battery wire. those are minimums.. the lucas setup has some plugs that plug to it. look around near it and see if you see hanging plugs.. or cut off wires.

if the prev owner wired it positive ground. no telling what else he didn't know...
 
souNdguy gave you good information. I would add that you should get yourself an I&T FO-31 manual. It has a good wiring schematic for the 1965-1975 thousand series tractors (2 actually, one for US built tractors with a "C" serial number and one for the European built tractors with the "A" or "B" serial numbers).

If you're still unsure whether you've got an alternator or a generator after souNdguy's description, post some pictures and we should be able to tell you.
 
So what are the chances that a previous owner replaced the battery cables with backward colors and did not really change the polarity of the tractor? Would it run at all with the current going backwards? Would any parts be damaged by reversing polarity without rewiring?
 
Battery cable COLOR means nothing to electrons.

You have to look at where the battery cables go.

the battery cable that hits the chassis is the ground.

if it is a generator system, it can be polarized to run either positive or negative ground... however with only 1 wire hooked to the vreg.. not much is going on anyway and the genny likely doesn't know what polarity the battery is anyway!!

if it is an alt, then yep. takes about 400 nanoseconds for hooking up to the wrong polarity to smoke the alternator.

Basically.. you can't look at cable color to do anything on a 48 year old tractor.

you have to look at the lil markings on the top of the battery, and see where the cables go.
 
I did a little investigation on my lunch break.

First, I found the generator. I did not have time to trace the 3 wires except that the 1/4" cable (G3 in the photo) goes up under the instrument panel. Would I be correct in guessing that the tachometer is being driven through the generator?

What I need to know in order to hook things up correctly is which of G1 and G2 are the field and armature connectors. I suppose there might be labels under some of that dirt - lol. Any ideas as to which is which?
mvphoto8899.jpg


Next, I tracked the wiring to the coil. The black cable was going from battery negative and splitting off several places (many of which were disconnected), then into the ballast resistor and onto the POSITIVE terminal of the coil. As I understand, coil+ should always be connected to positive current regardless of frame polarity. Therefore, I had to assume that one of the previous owners replaced the ground cable with a red-colored ground cable and one of them got the connections switched.

I swapped the cables on the battery (putting the red chassis wire to - and the black multi-connection cable to +). In the off position, the battery read 12.33 volts. After an easy successful start of the engine, the voltage went up to 12.8 to 13 volts instead of dropping slightly like it before. I believe optimal charging voltage is closer to 1 volt higher than what I have. Hopefully that will improve when I figure out how to hook up the voltage regulator.

Pictured below is the voltage regulator on my tractor. The angle of that photo makes it difficult to see the writing, but it shows a model number "RB340" and the terminals are labeled "G A WL F B" (the A has a circle around it). I would guess B is battery, F is field, and WL is warning light. What I don't know is if A means armature or G means generator. Currently, only the A terminal is connected. Any ideas which one to connect to the generator?
mvphoto8900.jpg


Thanks for all the help. I can't say how much I appreciate your willingness to help.
 
I stumbled onto a Lucas RB340 schematic. I now know that "G" means "ground" and the "A" goes to the output of the generator.

I think the only other thing to figure out is which of G1 and G2 (in the photo above) are the field and armature connectors.
 
(quoted from post at 15:32:24 07/09/14) I stumbled onto a Lucas RB340 schematic. I now know that "G" means "ground" and the "A" goes to the output of the generator.

I think the only other thing to figure out is which of G1 and G2 (in the photo above) are the field and armature connectors.
ard to say from picture, but G2 looks heavier gauge than G1. If yes, G2 is generator/dynamo output & the smaller G1 is field.
 
Update:

Tonight, I tested the generator output and it registered a good 14 volts. Unfortunately, neither of the wires coming from the generator have any continuity to any wire near the voltage regulator. I guess I'll be looking for some heat-resistant wiring and making a couple new runs between the generator and vreg, not to mention the battery connection.
 

Fiddlin... to confirm what has been said, the SMALL terminal
on the generator (your G1) is the FIELD.

As you will see, the two terminals on the generator are very different in size,
and cannot be mixed up using the wiring ends that are already attached.

I'm at a loss, however, as to where the rest of the wiring on the
voltage regulator has gone, and obviously has to be replaced
in order to have continuous charging.

The system is NEGATIVE ground, and coincidentally when I first
picked up my tractor, the battery was connected positive ground.
No idea why it was that way, but also no idea what previous owners
did either. Luckily, it will run either way, as long as the genny is polarized
to whichever system,....but Negative is the correct way.


Also, not to complicate your life, but I must mention that you take
the cover off of the regulator and inspect inside.
After 20/30/40 years, you may find that the interior is a giant
ball of rust, and it's certainly better to find out now than later
when no charging is a puzzle.......
:lol:

.
 
Little Billy - checking the inside of the vreg is probably a good idea, except that it is riveted shut.

I took my genny to the electric shop and it is definitely bad. The tech suspects something wrong with the armature. Depending on what is really wrong, repair could be $60 to $120. (YT store currently sells my genny for $102 after shipping) If I order a replacement genny, I'll just spend the extra $30 and assume the vreg is bad too. I want to finish this up on my vacation next week and don't want to wait for shipping twice.

Thanks,
FiddlinFarmer
 
(quoted from post at 15:17:24 07/14/14) Little Billy - checking the inside of the vreg is probably a good idea, except that it is riveted shut.

I took my genny to the electric shop and it is definitely bad. The tech suspects something wrong with the armature. Depending on what is really wrong, repair could be $60 to $120. (YT store currently sells my genny for $102 after shipping) If I order a replacement genny, I'll just spend the extra $30 and assume the vreg is bad too. I want to finish this up on my vacation next week and don't want to wait for shipping twice.

Thanks,
FiddlinFarmer
Switching to an alternator would be cheaper & have better reliability into the future, but each of us should follow our own path. Hey, don't let a little rivet keep you out! Drill, Dremel, etc. :)
 
(quoted from post at 16:31:59 07/14/14) Do they make alternators with the tachometer output for my tractor? Tach is gauged through the generator on this one.

Yes, you can get an alternator with the tach drive to replace the generator, but that drives the "cheaper" out of JMOR's statement. The alternators with the tach drive are pretty expensive compared to a plain old alternator without the tach drive. You can buy an alternator conversion with the tach drive from our hosts here on Yesterdays Tractors:

[u:6847031fd0]Alternator conversion with tach drive[/u:6847031fd0]
 
(quoted from post at 16:51:39 07/14/14)
(quoted from post at 16:31:59 07/14/14) Do they make alternators with the tachometer output for my tractor? Tach is gauged through the generator on this one.

Yes, you can get an alternator with the tach drive to replace the generator, but that drives the "cheaper" out of JMOR's statement. The alternators with the tach drive are pretty expensive compared to a plain old alternator without the tach drive. You can buy an alternator conversion with the tach drive from our hosts here on Yesterdays Tractors:

[u:8e2c8bdaa6]Alternator conversion with tach drive[/u:8e2c8bdaa6]
es Sir! It sure does.
 

One man's opinion.....replace the generator.....

You've already got wiring issues, and unless you're up to replacing
ALL the wiring/ harness/ brackets, etc.,
the simplest route is a simple replacement.
I would not recommend having the old unit rebuilt.

Did the same with mine last year (gen and regulator) and end result
was the same (and will be) as an alternator......it charges :)

And for the price difference, $350 :roll:
you can buy 3 generators over the next 120 years, if they last
as long as the original :)
 
The local electric shop said that my generator was pretty burned up and would need a new armature. They had a brand new exact match for my generator with tach driver for $97 after tax, so I went that route.

I still could not get a charge, so I moved on to the voltage regulator (I should have taken it to the electric shop at the same time and they would have tested it too). Little Billy - you were right about getting a little braver in opening it up. Those weren't rivets, but a kind of plastic expansion plug that is somewhat removable.
mvphoto9175.jpg


The parts weren't just a glob of rust, but all the contacts were pretty corroded. I ran a very fine sandpaper over the contacts and hooked it back up without the cover. Depending on RPMs, I started getting between 13.4 and 14 volts at the battery and the tractor would continue to run off the generator when I disconnected the positive battery terminal.

Unfortunately, it did not continue to work after I put the cover back on on the vreg and remounted it in its proper position. At least this was a ray of hope though. I will order a new vreg and things should be good.
 
The resistor on the back side isn't shorting to structure is it? Good ground between gen & VR is a must. Wrap it firmly with a screwdriver handle while running at speed. Also, if you have had battery on charger just prior to your no charge situation, the battery voltage may be so high as to indicate to VR that no additional charge is needed.
 
I think it actually was shorting against the back. I slid a flat piece of plastic between the back of the regulator and the metal plate it mounts to. It seems to be charging the battery, or at least not draining it any more.

I am not sure I know how tell if the output of the generator is correct or not. When I measure voltage between the battery terminals, it still drops when the tractor is running. However, the tractor runs well even when disconnected from the battery (running only from the generator), and the battery cranks the starter very well no matter how long I run the tractor.

Is there a proper method of testing the generator's output? The I&T manual gave some technical specs for the generator and regulator, but did not spell out how to test them.
 


Your simplest test will be a voltmeter across the battery terminals...

Check with engine NOT running, should be slightly over 12 volts.

Check then with engine running, should be about 13.5 ish.

With engine running, however, the RPM should be about 2000
for max output of the generator.
Generators will not charge at idle (one of the main reason for switch to alternators)

A steady running tractor will be charging while working at high rpms,
so starting and stopping will wear battery down over time....


If you want in-depth info, here's everything you need to know
about generators

http://www.venselenterprises.com/techtipsfromdick_files/generators.pdf


BTW, did you replace ALL the wiring on the voltage regulator?

Later, Bill.

.
 
(quoted from post at 22:56:16 07/21/14) Wow, that is a wonderful document. Exactly what I needed. Thanks!
he author doesn't understand how a cut out works though.
 

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