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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

851 or 861 How to tell

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Thommoos

04-29-2014 10:55:07
216.226.180.23



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Just bought a ford, 5 speed, 800, how do i tell between a the two. The one I have have has a 2 stage clutch, no stickers or anything hood. i just know it is a five speed, gas burner, 6v, it does not have the hydraulic remote either. Tractors hood is solid grey no red stripe. Says 800 on emblem.




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cbrown9064

05-01-2014 10:08:16
96.3.144.182



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 Re: 851 or 861 How to tell in reply to Thommoos, 04-29-2014 10:55:07  
Check page 22 ouf this URL


http://goo.gl/IEHMu4
This post was edited by cbrown9064 at 10:09:50 05/01/14.



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cbrown9064

05-01-2014 10:07:33
96.3.144.182



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 Re: 851 or 861 How to tell in reply to Thommoos, 04-29-2014 10:55:07  
You said your tractor was an 850, so it is "possible" it has a live PTO, but odds are it does not.

On the 660/661/860/861 there are two hole positions in the clevis that attaches to the bellcrank that moves the TOB fork. One setting creates a "low" clutch pedal in that basically makes the PTO "non-live". The other setting makes a real high clutch pedal (like twice as high as the other position), that when stepped halfway makes the tractor stop.
This post was edited by cbrown9064 at 10:10:19 05/01/14 3 times.

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Beanmedic

04-29-2014 19:13:34
50.155.49.136



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 Re: 851 or 861 How to tell in reply to Thommoos, 04-29-2014 10:55:07  
As said, it is common to have a tractor where the parts have been exchanged. Seems particularly true with the X00 and X01 series. The five speed tractors were commonly power shifted between third and reverse because one did not have to press down on the shifter to find another range. The result is that many of the five speed transmissions slip out of 3rd gear or reverse. And for that reason, sometimes you see a replacement five speed transmission that isn't the same year as the tractor. And even worse, if the owner didn't care about live PTO and five speed, or have the money to replace/rebuild the original with like capability, they frequently dropped a four speed in and sacrificed the live PTO capability.
That being said, I recently bought an 860 that is part 1955 and part 1957. Transmission, where you find the model/serial number had been replaced on the original 1955 with a 1957 five speed. It's really not an issue until you need to replace parts. Few tractors are all original. The main thing I cared about was that the transmission, whatever year, was strong and did not jump out of 3rd and/or reverse.
The 850 is a five speed, non-live PTO. The 860 is a five speed, live PTO. IF it really has a two stage clutch, and you step down on it half way and the tractor's forward motion stops, but the PTO continues, it is likely a live PTO. That is not a foolproof test, as the farmer could set the clutch up to disable the live PTO. And, the clutches are frequently out of adjustment anyway. Word of caution...check that with some load on the PTO if you can, just to make sure it is not just spinning. I have had a friend just press a 2x4 board against the PTO to make sure.
If you are real A-R you can search the archives about casting numbers and interpret the numbers cast in the cast iron, such as the axle trumpets. Then you may get a better sense of the whole tractor. Even if it is a "frankentractor" like my 860.

Hope I haven't explained so much that it has become confusing.

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thommoos

05-01-2014 08:57:09
216.226.180.23



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 Re: 851 or 861 How to tell in reply to Beanmedic, 04-29-2014 19:13:34  
I stepped down on the clutch and the tractor and the pto quit moving. The clutch pedal assembly has 2 sets of linkage attached to it, that is why I was thinking it to be a 2 stage clutch maybe just ignorance on my part.



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thommoos

04-29-2014 17:24:54
166.147.120.21



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 Re: 851 or 861 How to tell in reply to Thommoos, 04-29-2014 10:55:07  
its a 1957 850 serial #84247



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soundguy

04-29-2014 18:19:06
207.30.46.70



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 Re: 851 or 861 How to tell in reply to thommoos, 04-29-2014 17:24:54  
congrats. real beefy tractor

I have 2 of them.. both loader tractors.. one actually a LD TLB



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Thommoos

05-01-2014 07:17:21
216.226.180.23



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 Re: 851 or 861 How to tell in reply to soundguy, 04-29-2014 18:19:06  
I got this off ebay it listed as not running so i took a chance and bought it as is. I am planning on putting my wagner 130 from my 8n onto the 850. I bought it not running and it started yesterday for me. I started with a battery, then put plugs in it, then wires, changed the cap and button. She purrs like a kitten. Proof meter does not work, but I had 40 lbs oil pressure and a low idle. Oil was real clean, but I will change it this weekend. Brakes work great. I do have a problem of gas overflowing in the carb into the air hose, so hopefully a simple overhaul will do the trick. It feels and loofs like it has a 2 stage clutch, but the pto quit spinning as soon as you step on the clutch pedal.

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soundguy

05-01-2014 07:34:03
108.112.96.98



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 Re: 851 or 861 How to tell in reply to Thommoos, 05-01-2014 07:17:21  
did you find / feel a hald way area on the clutch that stopped drivetrain but not pto?



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Thommoos

05-01-2014 08:58:41
216.226.180.23



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 Re: 851 or 861 How to tell in reply to soundguy, 05-01-2014 07:34:03  
Yes i did feel the half way but both quit working, adjustment and does this mean that the PTO is live?



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soundguy

05-01-2014 09:14:59
108.112.96.98



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 Re: 851 or 861 How to tell in reply to Thommoos, 05-01-2014 08:58:41  
if it is live, htere will be a mid point that the drivetrain stops, but pto is still spinning.



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soundguy

04-29-2014 11:29:20
108.112.39.205



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 Re: 851 or 861 How to tell in reply to Thommoos, 04-29-2014 10:55:07  
don't rely on paint or tin. i can change out a ford tin in 2 hours.. somene else could too.

go by the stamped model number ont he flat of the bellhousing. if it is obliterated, do the standby test of engaging the pto, letting clutch out till pto spins, then look at the ground and see if you are moving or not



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Kurt-NEPA

04-29-2014 11:00:59
70.44.176.213



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 Re: 851 or 861 How to tell in reply to Thommoos, 04-29-2014 10:55:07  
The easiest way to tell is to check the model number, it is stamped above the serial number on the flat spot above the starter. Sometimes they hard to read (too much paint over the years).

By your description, you most likely have an 860. The 860 had a 172 cu. in engine, 5 speed transmission and a double clutch. The 861 was a bit newer. It has a different grill, fenders and no stamped Ford script on the fenders and hood.

That said, lots of parts could have been swapped over the years. Check the serial and model numbers

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