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172 diesel timing

What do you mean by pre-cup or energy cell? Thank you. I would like to know the difference just for my own knowledge. I appreciate your help.
 
(quoted from post at 08:54:55 04/24/14) What do you mean by pre-cup or energy cell? Thank you. I would like to know the difference just for my own knowledge. I appreciate your help.
Click to expand...
aybe that pre-cup business will explain why it would run when the injection would be near the end of the exhaust stroke???????? Enough fuel still in cyl by the time the next compression stroke occurs?
 
Everything that I have read say it is direct injection. I did some
research on what the difference is in a pre-cup and direct is
and I
would guess it is direct injection. I'm going to check it out in the
near future and see exactly what is going on. When the tractor
is pulling it stops smoking and doesn't run rough. I'm just trying
to understand what exactly is going on.
 
(quoted from post at 16:16:02 04/24/14) Everything that I have read say it is direct injection. I did some
research on what the difference is in a pre-cup and direct is
and I
would guess it is direct injection. I'm going to check it out in the
near future and see exactly what is going on. When the tractor
is pulling it stops smoking and doesn't run rough. I'm just trying
to understand what exactly is going on.
Click to expand...
 
IH 400 series engines will certainly run with the pump 180 degrees out of time. Seen it more than once. I have no reason to believe a 172 wouldn't. The binder engines don't run well but run they will.
 
It is theoretically impossible for a 4-stroke cycle diesel engine to run with the pump 180 degrees off, which is 360 degrees off on the crank. At that point, the fuel is being injected on the exhaust stroke, when no compression is being made. No compression = no heat. No heat = no fire. It's really that simple.

If you wish to make the case that injected fuel is being carried over to the intake and then compression stroke of the next cycle, then I would submit that it's not really 180 off. I would guess that the fuel is really being injected on the intake stroke. If that were the case, it may run, but it would likely knock like mad.

I've seen more than one engine with the pump installed exactly 180 degrees off. All they ever did was puff white smoke out the stack. That was it. Fuel is being injected at 20 degrees BTDC going right out the exhaust valve at TDC.
 
You can write all the theory all you want. As I said, I've seen DT414's run crappy with the pump installed 180 degrees out. More than once.
 
I know we've had our differences in the past Rick, and I am going to say that I respectfully disagree, and will only believe it when I see it - in person. The problem is, if you sent me a video clip to prove your claim, I would have no idea of exactly where the pump timing was, unless I was there in person with a diesel timing light to verify it.

I just might try this next year when we cover fuel systems with a Cummins C engine. I seriously doubt it will work. The last engine I saw this tried on was a Deere 466. The tech who installed the pump had his marks all lined up, but it turned out he was on the wrong stroke. Copious quantities of white smoke came out the stack when cranking, but it did not even TRY to take off and fire. I can't see how a DT is really all that much different, assuming it is direct injection, which I believe is the case.
 
(quoted from post at 14:46:53 04/25/14) I know we've had our differences in the past Rick, and I am going to say that I respectfully disagree, and will only believe it when I see it - in person. The problem is, if you sent me a video clip to prove your claim, I would have no idea of exactly where the pump timing was, unless I was there in person with a diesel timing light to verify it.

I just might try this next year when we cover fuel systems with a Cummins C engine. I seriously doubt it will work. The last engine I saw this tried on was a Deere 466. The tech who installed the pump had his marks all lined up, but it turned out he was on the wrong stroke. Copious quantities of white smoke came out the stack when cranking, but it did not even TRY to take off and fire. I can't see how a DT is really all that much different, assuming it is direct injection, which I believe is the case.
Click to expand...
ello, all. Don't shoot the messenger, here, now, because about all I know about diesel is cost more, noisy and stink. But I have been following this thread out of curiosity. I'm wondering if the disagreement isn't all caused by the absence or presence of a pre-chamber. Might the pre-chamber hold fuel from being exhausted & thereby be available to fire 360 crank degrees later on compression stroke, where with non-pre-chamber engines it might have too much exhausted to try to fire?
 
You may be correct, but I don't know, as I myself have never (yet) tried to intentionally mistime an engine with precups. I don't think the DT engine in question has precups though.
 
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