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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh?

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William Fissell

04-02-2014 18:56:46
67.187.127.124



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Hi, All,

trying to time my 841. The dizzy seems a little messed up, as there was brass dust all over the inside of the cap, it has the wrong rotor, lacks the distributor shaft clip.

Anyway, the thing runs but I was confused that the timing marks only show up when the #4 plug fires. I thought the flywheels were indexed to the crank in such a way as this could not happen.

I'll get a new cap and rotor and clip; the rotor is slapping around so much that the timing is quite jittery now. Any reason to try to think about remedying this, or just go ahead and time off #4 and move along?

thanks!

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Sean in PA

04-04-2014 04:31:53
76.98.64.154



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to William Fissell, 04-02-2014 18:56:46  
And after you buy more you will find the ones that you bought previously. :D



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Mark Slater

04-04-2014 05:49:52
173.63.98.99



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to Sean in PA, 04-04-2014 04:31:53  
That would be me for sure. I'd find them as soon as I went to put the new ones away.

I've got a pie chart hanging in my shop about how I spend my time.

5% Cleaning

5% Designing

5% Creating

5% Finishing

80% Looking for the tool I just had in my hands

It's more true than I care to admit.



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Mark Slater

04-03-2014 18:03:53
68.38.122.49



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to ErnieD, 04-02-2014 18:56:46  
Isn't it the clip that keeps that rotor from twisting around?
I know in a fix you can use plumbers tape in place of the clip. That will get you enough time to finish the day and get a new part, but it won't last for too long. I figured something like that might be happening with William.



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William Fissell

04-03-2014 18:09:37
67.187.127.124



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to Mark Slater, 04-03-2014 18:03:53  
What I am most peeved about is that I ordered a handful of clips last time I needed one.. and they are all safely hidden away somewheres.



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showcrop

04-03-2014 05:01:41
75.67.231.80



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to William Fissell, 04-02-2014 18:56:46  
Distributor shaft bushings do wear out you should not be able to wiggle the top of the shaft it should be just loose enough to spin easily.



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William Fissell

04-03-2014 07:44:59
129.59.115.13



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to showcrop, 04-03-2014 05:01:41  
negligible wobble. Just the rotor is trashed.



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Mark Slater

04-03-2014 15:08:13
173.63.98.99



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to William Fissell, 04-03-2014 07:44:59  
Once you get the correct rotor with the clip the jitter will probably be less.



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JMOR

04-03-2014 16:28:44
72.181.173.171



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to Mark Slater, 04-03-2014 15:08:13  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see"Probably" not, as Bob has already stated, " Spark occurs when the breaker points OPEN and the statement "the rotor is slapping around so much that the timing isquite jittery now" is NOT valid"



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Bob

04-02-2014 20:34:37
64.255.159.192



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to William Fissell, 04-02-2014 18:56:46  
1. 1 & 4 fire a turn apart at the same point/timing mark on the flywheel, and 2 & 3 fire 180 from there, halfway around the flywheel. (1 & 4 crank throws are on the same plane, as are the throws for 2 & 3.)

2. Spark occurs when the breaker points OPEN and the statement "the rotor is slapping around so much that the timing isquite jittery now" is NOT valid. However, wear/looseness/slop in the distributor gears/shaft/advance mechanism CAN casue the timing mark to move around.

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sunbeam

04-02-2014 20:09:29
70.195.4.41



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to William Fissell, 04-02-2014 18:56:46  
Number 1 and 4 are companion cylinders both will fire at the same tdc mark only 360 deg apart. Do you not get a light on number 1?



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Texas!

04-02-2014 20:03:17
201.148.70.73



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to William Fissell, 04-02-2014 18:56:46  
The pistons in cylinders 1 and 4 are both at TDC at the same time. If #1 is on compression stroke #4 is on exhaust stroke and vice versa.
I assume you are shining a timing light though the "window" in the block onto the flywheel? And the flywheel marks are illuminated by the light only when the light is connected to the #4 plug wire? When you connect the light to #1 plug wire the light does not flash? If this is all true then you are not getting any "fire" through the #1 wire to trigger the light and your engine is running on 3 cylinders.
Regardless of what's happening you can indeed set the initial timing using the #4 cylinder and verify that the advance mechanism inside the distributor is working by revving up the engine and confirming that the timing does advance.

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William Fissell

04-02-2014 22:23:34
67.187.127.124



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to Texas!, 04-02-2014 20:03:17  
Hi, all,

Yep I get the light flashing on all spark plug wires, but when I peek through the hole at the timing marks, I only see them when the timing light is clipped to number 4, not at all when clipped to number one. Wires 1and 4 are diagonally opposite each other on the distributor cap and I verified tdc by feeling through the spark plug hole when the rotor was pointing at the #1 wire.

I see your point about points and it was maybe a dumb idea to blame the jitter on the rotor. But holy cats it"s jumping around.

Thanks for your help.

Bill

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sunbeam

04-03-2014 06:06:33
70.195.4.41



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to William Fissell, 04-02-2014 22:23:34  
If the cam lobe for the points is worn it may be firing #1 late.



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William Fissell

04-03-2014 07:45:29
129.59.115.13



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 Re: 841 timing marks only visible when #4 fires - huh? in reply to sunbeam, 04-03-2014 06:06:33  
yep. not eager to buy a new dizzy...



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