Ford 4000 SU ??

Shetland Sheepdog

Well-known Member
I was reading my last issue of "Heritage Iron" last night. There was a blurb under "40 years ago" that said the SU was introduced in '70, and was built using the 4000 Diesel engine in a 3000 AP chassis! My recollection is that it was built "all 4000" except the front end! (it had the rear end with inboard planetarys & wet disc brakes, IPTO, etc) I worked with several 4000 SU's, but the oldest was a '71! Did they upgrade between '70 & '71, or is my above recollection right? Please correct me if I'm wrong!
Dave
 
I'd say you're right too. I've never seen, or heard mention of, a 4000 SU with the drum brakes a 3000 chassis would have. Unless you call Ultra's 201-powered gasser a 4000 SU...
 
The rag is wrong. The SU was fully a 4000 AP with the exception of the front axle and the components related to it's installation.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's wrong about the date as well as I thought they made them longer than that. MAbey not...

Rod
 
The words "Heritage Iron" got my attention.The article on Kinze Mfg struck home. Since I live 5 miles from his plant. I have actually driven that big blue four wheel double motored tractor once across the field with the plow. This was back in the 70s. As far as I know that article is pretty much correct. Couldn't keep from blowing my own "horn"
 
I also have to assume that the rearend gearing wasn't changed between the 4000 AP and 4000 SU! I never had opportunity to run one beside the other, but many times compared a 3000 AP to a 4000 SU! The 3000 had 14.9x24 rears and the SU had 16.9x24 rears. The 3000 running at full throttle in 7th gear was faster than the SU running at full throttle in 8th!
Dave
 
(reply to post at 22:23:19 10/24/10)
If my memory serves, the 4000 castings have the provisions, just not utilized on the AP's. I will defer to those more knowledgeable, but I wouldn't be surprised if the 3xxx & 4xxx tractors used the same transmission housing anyway. I will attempt further research!
Dave
 
Rod, I found this photo in the "tractor" gallery. Looks like a pre '69 SU, but may be a mutt! After looking closer, my guess is that the tinwork was replaced, I see the newer style PS pump lurking under the generator.
Dave

a104712.jpg
 
It's an SU but it's probably got a mix of parts. I see a spin on filter which I don't believe it would have had in '69. Not sure on the PS pump but thought the change was around there somewhere. Appears to be the early style grill too...

Rod
 
I had a '69 4000 AP SoS many years ago, and it had the old style pump with the separate reservoir. I'm not exactly sure of the DOM, but it was mfgd after the '68-'69 change over (had the newer style tinwork). I replaced that 4000 with my present '82 5610 in '86.
Dave
 
(quoted from post at 09:24:54 10/25/10) I had a '69 4000 AP SoS many years ago, and it had the old style pump with the separate reservoir. I'm not exactly sure of the DOM, but it was mfgd after the '68-'69 change over (had the newer style tinwork). I replaced that 4000 with my present '82 5610 in '86.
Dave

From my parts manual, it looks like they switched to the new style power steering pump in October of '68 on the 4000 and 4000 SU, but some models kept the old style until as late as November of '70.
 
The picture on page 1 looks much like my 1975 SU. Lower grille looks different, wrong seat, do not see a red tail-lamp behind the amber flasher, steering knob not factory, no SU sticker on lower front hood, many things painted blue that weren't when new.

Mine also has suitcase weights along with associated brackets on the front. My bet is on the weights being an optional accessory though.

Too new of a member to quote the picture on page 1 or I would have.
 
(quoted from post at 05:32:47 10/24/10) I was reading my last issue of "Heritage Iron" last night. There was a blurb under "40 years ago" that said the SU was introduced in '70, and was built using the 4000 Diesel engine in a 3000 AP chassis! My recollection is that it was built "all 4000" except the front end! (it had the rear end with inboard planetarys & wet disc brakes, IPTO, etc) I worked with several 4000 SU's, but the oldest was a '71! Did they upgrade between '70 & '71, or is my above recollection right? Please correct me if I'm wrong!
Dave


Yes guys you are correct. The SU series is a 4000 tractor with 3000 front end and thats it. I have a 4000SU and 4600SU and love them both. Their not that great for front end loader work due to weaker front axle but thats not what they were originally designed for anyways. Originally, it was promoted as a high power but also a highly maneuverable tractor for mowing grass, plowing and disking. Now for the cool part. There is interesting history behind this tractor. I'm not sure of the exact dates but am close as I know a gentlemen that was friends with the original two guys that came up with the concept. The revised 4000's came out in 1965 and ran through 1974. A few years after these new tractors were released two gentlemen from Virginia had a personal need for a high power but tight turning tractor. So they began changing out parts from a 3000 front end to assemble to their 4000. Once they had a workable tractor they went to Ford with the idea. As the story goes Ford blew them off saying it would never fly and showed no interest to their idea. However, guess what showed up on Ford dealer lots around 1970? You guessed it as the SU was born. I'm sure the gentlemen from VA were not happy but i'm not really sure what happened afterwards. Maybe they just walked away or maybe Ford payed them off but who knows… Ford ended up selling a slew of them until demand finally tapered off mid to late 80's as new more compact 4x4's with beefy front axles started arriving. Another interesting thing is that if you go to a New Holland dealer they will tell you that Ford never made a Ford 4000SU and that the SU didn't start until the 4600 series in 1975. I have been looking for a series II SU for about 4 years now but so far have come up empty handed. Sure I've found several that have alot of wear etc but if I ever find the one thats in amazing shape with little use I will try to grab it for sure. Probably will never find it but part of the fun is the search. Glad I found this older thread as its brought back a few memories for me. So Sheepdog do you still have your SU? If so hows she doing?
 
(quoted from post at 19:08:56 03/14/14)
(quoted from post at 05:32:47 10/24/10) I was reading my last issue of "Heritage Iron" last night. There was a blurb under "40 years ago" that said the SU was introduced in '70, and was built using the 4000 Diesel engine in a 3000 AP chassis! My recollection is that it was built "all 4000" except the front end! (it had the rear end with inboard planetarys & wet disc brakes, IPTO, etc) I worked with several 4000 SU's, but the oldest was a '71! Did they upgrade between '70 & '71, or is my above recollection right? Please correct me if I'm wrong!
Dave


Yes guys you are correct. The SU series is a 4000 tractor with 3000 front end and thats it. I have a 4000SU and 4600SU and love them both. Their not that great for front end loader work due to weaker front axle but thats not what they were originally designed for anyways. Originally, it was promoted as a high power but also a highly maneuverable tractor for mowing grass, plowing and disking. Now for the cool part. There is interesting history behind this tractor. I'm not sure of the exact dates but am close as I know a gentlemen that was friends with the original two guys that came up with the concept. The revised 4000's came out in 1965 and ran through 1974. A few years after these new tractors were released two gentlemen from Virginia had a personal need for a high power but tight turning tractor. So they began changing out parts from a 3000 front end to assemble to their 4000. Once they had a workable tractor they went to Ford with the idea. As the story goes Ford blew them off saying it would never fly and showed no interest to their idea. However, guess what showed up on Ford dealer lots around 1970? You guessed it as the SU was born. I'm sure the gentlemen from VA were not happy but i'm not really sure what happened afterwards. Maybe they just walked away or maybe Ford payed them off but who knows… Ford ended up selling a slew of them until demand finally tapered off mid to late 80's as new more compact 4x4's with beefy front axles started arriving. Another interesting thing is that if you go to a New Holland dealer they will tell you that Ford never made a Ford 4000SU and that the SU didn't start until the 4600 series in 1975. I have been looking for a series II SU for about 4 years now but so far have come up empty handed. Sure I've found several that have alot of wear etc but if I ever find the one thats in amazing shape with little use I will try to grab it for sure. Probably will never find it but part of the fun is the search. Glad I found this older thread as its brought back a few memories for me. So Sheepdog do you still have your SU? If so hows she doing?
Well FM, I never owned one myself! The closest I've come is my 3910! However, I worked for a farm that has had 5 4000SU's, 4 4600SU's & 2 4610SU's I put many hours on the last 4000SU they bought, discing, planting & loading out the apple harvest. They are definitely a versatile and agile tractor!
Dave
Edit: The '74 4000SU that I ran is still working on that farm, although it acquired a new engine some years ago! I think that its the last of the 5 4000SU's they had originally.
At last count they had 29 tractors on the farm, mostly Ford or New Holland!
 


That would have been a sight to see all those Fords. I have always thought that I would like to go back in time and walk onto a Ford tractor lot to see brand new tractors. Man that would be too cool. By the way there is a gentleman in or near Asheville NC that had previuosly owned a dealership and bought 2 new 4610SU's for personal use. He sold one a few years back but still has the second. I'm told it still has less than 30 hours on it.
 

Started in 1847 and still going strong. Theres alot of history at that place. Do you have any older pics of the tractors and farm? Maybe something from 70's or 80's.
 
(reply to post at 22:30:36 03/14/14)
FM, Unfortunately, I do not have any pictures of that timeframe.
When I started there, in 1955, they had 5 tractors. Allis Chalmers G, Allis Chalmers CA, Allis Chalmers WD, Ford 8N & Fordson New Major (their first diesel). They only bought 2 more AC's from that point 'til present. They replaced the WD with a WD45 diesel & the CA with a D15 (their last gasoline tractor). They still use the D15 for cultivation.
They will be entertaining another Orange tractor this summer!
Trevor won 250 hours use of a big Kubota! Interestingly, the Ford/New Holland dealer, they have always dealt with, also sells Kubota!
 
"Blue" tractors at Brookdale:
Oldest = Fordson F (yard art)
Newest = NH T4.90
Smallest = Ford 1100
Largest = Ford 8000 (had a 9600, but it burned)
 
(quoted from post at 04:59:26 03/15/14)
(reply to post at 22:30:36 03/14/14)
FM, Unfortunately, I do not have any pictures of that timeframe.
When I started there, in 1955, they had 5 tractors. Allis Chalmers G, Allis Chalmers CA, Allis Chalmers WD, Ford 8N & Fordson New Major (their first diesel). They only bought 2 more AC's from that point 'til present. They replaced the WD with a WD45 diesel & the CA with a D15 (their last gasoline tractor). They still use the D15 for cultivation.
They will be entertaining another Orange tractor this summer!
Trevor won 250 hours use of a big Kubota! Interestingly, the Ford/New Holland dealer, they have always dealt with, also sells Kubota!


So do they prefer the Kubota's over the New Hollands? Same here to as many New Holland dealers picked up Kubota. Seems big farmers prefer New Holland or Deere around here and the part time guys and small farmers like Kubota. Unfortunately the dealer near my farm went strictly orange. I buy nothing from them now. I buy from the next dealer thats 30 min away. I have nothing against the K's but IMHO they don't perform like a heavier built tractor. They just don't seem like something you hand down to your children. More of a wear it out and trash it type of equipment. That being said upfront quality is good but just very light built and engines that run high rpms like a bumble bee.
 
(quoted from post at 18:01:36 03/15/14)
(quoted from post at 04:59:26 03/15/14)
(reply to post at 22:30:36 03/14/14)
FM, Unfortunately, I do not have any pictures of that timeframe.
When I started there, in 1955, they had 5 tractors. Allis Chalmers G, Allis Chalmers CA, Allis Chalmers WD, Ford 8N & Fordson New Major (their first diesel). They only bought 2 more AC's from that point 'til present. They replaced the WD with a WD45 diesel & the CA with a D15 (their last gasoline tractor). They still use the D15 for cultivation.
They will be entertaining another Orange tractor this summer!
Trevor won 250 hours use of a big Kubota! Interestingly, the Ford/New Holland dealer, they have always dealt with, also sells Kubota!


So do they prefer the Kubota's over the New Hollands? Same here to as many New Holland dealers picked up Kubota. Seems big farmers prefer New Holland or Deere around here and the part time guys and small farmers like Kubota. Unfortunately the dealer near my farm went strictly orange. I buy nothing from them now. I buy from the next dealer thats 30 min away. I have nothing against the K's but IMHO they don't perform like a heavier built tractor. They just don't seem like something you hand down to your children. More of a wear it out and trash it type of equipment. That being said upfront quality is good but just very light built and engines that run high rpms like a bumble bee.

FM We at brookdale do not prefer the Orange tractors. We are still strictly blue. I happened to win the states Farm Bureau Young Farmer award and get to use an M135GX kubota for 250 hrs. My feeling on this tractor is the same as most its light, has emissions, and is a 4 cylinder when 135 hp should really be a 6 cylinder. The use is free and If we don't like it we will replace with either a tw15 to a 8210 series or something in that mix. Nothing beats the old fords. I keep that fleet of 29 tractors running and its so much easier to work on the 4000 - 4600 su tractors than anything out there. best thing is they are standardized too so when our labor force gets on these tractors they are all identical and easy to use. Benefit of the older fords that I wish tractor manufacturers carried over to new models. My 2 favorites in our fleet is 79 7600 and 91 6610 seeries 2 4wd but i do put many hours still on that old 4000su spreading and pulling trailers. a new BSD 333h motor really woke that tractor up years ago. For some reason tho the 4000 still works better than the 6 4600 su we have. Sheepdog has helped me many times keep this fleet in repair and anyone who wants to see real fords working on a farm everyday just needs to come to brookdale as I do not see us trading or removing any of them in the future. Only adding to the fleet!
 

Nice write up and thanks for the info. I never had a chance to run the bigger series II tractors like the 6610 etc but man do they look sweet. Everything I own is 34-52 pto hp due to smaller areas I'm working. I agree it is strange that all the 4600SU's gave up prematurely. I have both and both seem to be still running well. The 4600 does have alot less hours on her so we shall see how she holds up. How are you finding the latest NH tractors? Have you purchased any lately? I like the looks of the 4000 series.
 
Just a side note to Trv's comments, if I may.
I was honored to have some of my suggestions about "specs" for the '91 6610 accepted/approved by Trv's dad when they purchased it! There's another interesting story concerning that tractor, but I'll let Trv tell that one! There's also an interesting story about the 1st 4600SU, and the ultimate acquiring of the '79 7600. Maybe, what I should do is start another thread entitled "The History of Brookdale Tractors". One final note, the AC "G" that I identified as being on the farm when I started in '55, is still there in a "ran when parked" condition!
 

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