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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

4500 with shuttle shift

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el6147

03-06-2014 19:19:32
50.127.229.4



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I am going to look at a 1967 4500 diesel "TLB" this week end , the present owners father owned it before passing away , 4 speed with a shuttle shift and he claims that the tractor doesnt move at all, He claims that this past summer when he was using it that is was slow to start moving when shifted to either forward or reward motion but was working and now doesnt move at all .

just wondering if it could be a worn front pump problem causing low pressure or maybe a worn out torque convertor , does any one know if these units are known for problems and do they share any common parts with any other model tractor.

any information would be helpful before I drive to look at this tractor thanks Phil

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Ecnerwal

03-08-2014 18:28:57
24.25.139.129



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 Re: 4500 with shuttle shift in reply to el6147, 03-06-2014 19:19:32  
You either need a crash box and rear end, or to be happy going slow (I actually would be fine, as I don't road-transport mine, and more slow oomph would come in handy for me - at least I think so.) Some people that actually have them that way are a bit frustrated with the ~6 MPH or so "new top speed."

6x4 manual is a stock option (I have one of those and one 4 speed power reverse.)

The SOS and 4 speed power reverse have a very different rear end ratio than the manual transmissions, as I understand it. No deep personal experience in there as yet.

Given that the hoe is demountable, an Ag tranny and rear end might give the option to take off the hoe (using the hoe to take itself off, per the manuals), put on the 3-point arms, and go do other tractor jobs with the same unit. I think someone may have done that here over the past 10 years or so.

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Ultradog MN

03-08-2014 16:47:15
174.20.239.172



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 Re: 4500 with shuttle shift in reply to el6147, 03-06-2014 19:19:32  
Somewhere around here I might have a torque converter for that tractor though I haven't seen it for a couple of years so it might have gotten scrapped.
If I were faced with dumping a bunch of money into one of those shuttle shifts I might consider putting a crash box into it.
I think a 6X4 was an option and wouldn't be too hard to find.
A TLB wouldn't have a 3 point or pto so it would be a matter of a double split and clutch and tranny.
A 3400, 4400 would have a 6X4. Or most any 3 cyl tranny would work.
If you weren't going to try to do a lot of production work - just used it around home, etc a
crash box might be easier/cheaper to get the tractor going.

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Ecnerwal

03-07-2014 19:36:59
24.25.139.129



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 Re: 4500 with shuttle shift in reply to el6147, 03-06-2014 19:19:32  
For all of us that are not you, the front pump on a 4500 (especially) or any tractor really, is located in FRONT of the engine block and (on the 4500) is associated with the hydraulic package. The one in the transmission is called the Transmission Hydraulic Pump, and you'll have a much easier time getting parts and help if you call it that since that's what Ford calls it...the transmission is 4 speed power reversing, but shuttle shift is acceptable since it's not calling it some other thing entirely that exists and is distinct from what you are trying to fix.

One thing to consider (though mine does not match the book, so...) is that there is supposed to be a "driveline disconnect" on these which is supposed to be used if it's towed - the effect of it being disengaged would be no motion. There is also a mechanism (the blocker valve) that keeps the forward/reverse shifter from moving out of neutral above a certain engine speed (if operating correctly.)
Otherwise the troubleshooting procedure starts with stick a gage on (remove lower access cover and attach) and see what the pressures are. At an oil temperature of 100F and 800 RPM, the pressure should be 95-115PSI. At 1500 RPM it should be 145-170PSI - if pressures are low, either the pump or the pressure regulating valve are at fault.

Under troubleshooting, No drive in any gear lists:
a. hydraulic clutch not applying

b. broken shifter forks

c. broken front or rear input shaft, output shaft, or traction coupler.

These transmissions are prone to picking up water.

The transmission and rear end sumps are separate - both should use UTF meeting MC134D, even though they originally had older specs that were different. The package is separate and can use 134D, but can also use straight hydraulic oil.

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Sean in PA

03-07-2014 07:21:32
76.98.64.154



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 Re: 4500 with shuttle shift in reply to el6147, 03-06-2014 19:19:32  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

You should use the same kind of oil in both the transmission and the rear axle center housing (UTF that meets the Ford/New Holland M2C134D specification), but they are separate sumps, each with their own fill and level check holes.



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JF in CT

03-07-2014 05:48:00
24.151.105.39



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 Re: 4500 with shuttle shift in reply to el6147, 03-06-2014 19:19:32  
RickB is right about the internal pump. On the bottom of the bell housing is an access plate. Under that you will find a tube with a fitting on the end. That is where a diagnostic pressure gauge can be mounted to check the pump pressure (don't remember what it should be). A clogged filter can cause symptoms like this. Inside the transmission, at the bottom where you can't get at it, is a pickup tube with a screen on it (don't know of any way to clean it) that can cause this if clogged. One of the problems with leaving a tractor outside is that water can seep past the shift boot into the trans. Water mixing with the fluid causes trouble, maybe even ice. Anything else and yes, it can get expensive.

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el6147

03-07-2014 06:57:01
50.105.92.81



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 Re: 4500 with shuttle shift in reply to JF in CT, 03-07-2014 05:48:00  
having done some research on the ford newholland parts , I see where there is the pick up tube and screen and two variations of the placement of the trans filter . owner stated that the tractor is currently outside and I have know way of knowing if it has always been stored outside and it is in a cold climate.

so has I understand it,the differential and trans share the same oil and it is used to supply the torque converter and the screen pick up is located at the bottom of the trans case. If it has been stored out side for some time that would make sense that the trans may have taken in rain water. further research as indicated that the 4500 shares many of the same shuttle parts with later built ford units . and the drive discs where also used on many john deere's also and many parts including the pump are available aftermarket.

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JF in CT

03-07-2014 14:29:51
24.151.105.39



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 Re: 4500 with shuttle shift in reply to el6147, 03-07-2014 06:57:01  
I don't remember if the trans and diff share the same fluid, they may but I think they are seperate units with independent fillers. I could be wrong but you should check on that.



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RickB

03-07-2014 02:42:14
216.227.60.196



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 Re: 4500 with shuttle shift in reply to el6147, 03-06-2014 19:19:32  
The 4 speed power reversing transmission is not related to the front hydraulic pump, and is a self-contained unit except for the transmission oil cooler, filter, and external lines. Parts would be common to any tractor of that vintage having that transmission. As with any 45 year old machine, speculating on faults is just that, speculation. If it doesn't respond to proper oil quantity and quality and a clean filter, it's probably going to run into some work and dollars to fix.

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el6147

03-07-2014 05:40:14
50.105.92.81



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 Re: 4500 with shuttle shift in reply to RickB, 03-07-2014 02:42:14  
I "WAS" refering to the front trans pump that is drivin by the torque converter . thanks



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RickB

03-07-2014 14:03:45
69.195.55.12



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 Re: 4500 with shuttle shift in reply to el6147, 03-07-2014 05:40:14  
Not many people would describe the transmission pump as the front pump, but that's OK.



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