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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

10 series 201 - oil in the water

Author  [Modern View]
Ultradog MN

03-05-2014 17:00:47
174.20.239.172



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I looked at a 4000D today.
Seller had removed the original engine some - 10?12? years ago and installed a new, crate 201.
He said the dealer told him it was for a 4610. It does have the extra cross hatching on the block.
He ran the engine for a couple thousand hours and it started pushing oil into the water.
He's not an engine man so he had a 'mechanic' look at it and couldn't find the problem.
So he removed the crate engine and put the old, tired 201 back in then promptly seized it when the oil plug fell out and it ran out of oil.
Ouch!
So I'm looking at this as a package deal maybe.
We all know on the older 3 cyl diesels cavitation was a problem. Not only cavitation into the cylinders but also into the oil gallerys.
There is an old school engine man here in MN that has repaired many of the 3,4 and 6 cyl diesels by reaming out all the oil gallerys and locktiteing in a tube.
So I understand the issue is not new.
But I'm a little surprised that a new style BS block would have that problem.
Anyway, getting to the punchline here, is there another way an engine could put oil into the water OTHER than from a gallery?
Engine is complete and fairly low houred so might be worth trying to save.
Not sure what I'd do with the tractor. It's kind of a dog. I did make a low ball offer offer on it and the spare engine though.
He said he'd think it over.

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Sean in PA

03-07-2014 07:14:22
76.98.64.154



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 Re: 10 series 201 - oil in the water in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-05-2014 17:00:47  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I doubt a 10 series has a S-O-S.



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RodInNS

03-05-2014 20:56:30
216.118.158.123



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 Re: 10 series 201 - oil in the water in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-05-2014 17:00:47  
I think you were fed a line of crap. My money is on this.... you've got an engine with a bad head gasket that's turned the coolant into a black froth that looks like oil. Shave the head, chase the head bolts and otherwise check for cracks in the head... and put it back together.

Cavitated blocks represent themselves with coolant in the base, not oil in the coolant.

Rod



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Ultradog MN

03-06-2014 18:17:47
174.20.239.172



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 Re: 10 series 201 - oil in the water in reply to RodInNS, 03-05-2014 20:56:30  
I talked to the old machinest today and he stands by his statement that they will push oil into the water from near the main bearings.
He fixed several of them.
I still don't understand where it happens.
I'm going to go up there to drop off a crank to be ground and head to be done one of these days and will talk to him about it more.
Now fellas, before you jump on me about this remember I'm going on hearsay and not quoting facts. But I think it's worth exploring anyway.
He did say he doubted there could be anything in that BSD engine that he couldn't fix and agreed it would be worth buying if only for parts.
If the price is right of course.
It's on the back burner for now, along with other things.

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RodInNS

03-07-2014 06:49:25
216.118.158.123



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 Re: 10 series 201 - oil in the water in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-06-2014 18:17:47  
The 'hearsay' factor was my main consideration when I suggested that it's probably a head gasket... If you or Bern had said that it has 'oil in the jacket'... I'd take that as good. I've lost count of all the times over the years that someone either on here or locally has said to me that their engine has oil in the water only to find out it's nothing more than a blown fire ring on the gasket. I've had probably 3-4 of them on my own stuff.

I would take with a healthy dose of skepticism the assertion that the main oil gallery can cavitate into the water jacket.

Rod

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Dean

03-05-2014 20:11:06
152.216.3.5



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 Re: 10 series 201 - oil in the water in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-05-2014 17:00:47  
S-O-S?

If so pressure test the oil cooler in the ratiator bottom tank.

Dean



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Bern

03-05-2014 18:19:18
66.218.203.173



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 Re: 10 series 201 - oil in the water in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-05-2014 17:00:47  
I've worked on more of those Basildon engines than I care to remember, and never have I heard of an issue with a cracked oil gallery putting oil in the water. To be honest, even if it was cracked, I don't think it's close enough to a water passage to do that.

Furthermore, I don't see how the oil gallery could be replaced with a tube because the lifter bores intersect the oil gallery. It would be darn near impossible to do. Are you sure you understood this repair correctly?

Back to your original problem: Pretty rare on that engine, since it does not use an oil cooler, unless the BSD engine came with one. Is there an oil cooler behind the oil filter? If so, have it checked very carefully, or take it off, it is not really needed.

How much oil in the cooling system are we talking? It doesn't take much to make it look like a lot. Is there no evidence of water in the oil? It's possible that a pinhole low enough in the cylinder wall could allow oil to be scraped into the cooling system I think.

Other than those 2 things (oil cooler and pinhole), I can't think of how a 201 could do that.

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Ultradog MN

03-05-2014 18:48:55
174.20.239.172



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 Re: 10 series 201 - oil in the water in reply to Bern, 03-05-2014 18:19:18  
Thanks Bern.
I'm asking, not telling.
The old machinest who does Ken and my work told me about pinholing from the gallery into the water jacket. Described fixing them by reaming and installing a tube. I thought I understood him...
Said back in the 80s a couple of dealers couldn't keep 401s running because of it. He figured out how to fix them and made a lot of money buying 'junk' cores and fixing them that way and rebuilding them.
I could have sworn he fixed Ken's 201 from his 4600 that way for the same problem.
I didn't notice an oil cooler but will look if I see it again.
I meant BSD not BS.

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Bern

03-06-2014 15:11:37
66.218.203.173



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 Re: 10 series 201 - oil in the water in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-05-2014 18:48:55  
I know many people who would refer to those engines as "BS". However, that description is more deserving for the 401, not the 201.



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