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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth

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Wyman Skaggs

02-16-2014 08:50:55




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My 850 ford does not have a live the 2 stage clutch. I believe it does have a live PTO Please explain the difference




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Dean

02-16-2014 13:49:31




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 Re: Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth in reply to Wyman Skaggs, 02-16-2014 08:50:55  
If your tractor is indeed an 850, it does NOT have live PTO, though it most certainly has live hydraulics.

Live PTO is a system wherein you can stop motion of the tractor without interrupting the power to the PTO and without moving the transmission into neutral.

Can you do that with your 850?

Dean



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Royse

02-16-2014 12:44:38




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 Re: Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth in reply to Wyman Skaggs, 02-16-2014 08:50:55  
"Oliver by far had the best set up with a PTO clutch so
the engine/trans clutch had nothing to do with the PTO"

Independent PTO like this is definitely the best to me.

Other tractors were also set up this way.
My John Deere 50 for one.

As was said, very handy to have when baling or harvesting.

It does take away the "one pedal stops everything" option tho.



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J. Schwiebert

02-16-2014 09:53:52




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 Re: Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth in reply to Wyman Skaggs, 02-16-2014 08:50:55  
Back in the day when it was new I think the 2 stage clutch/ independent PTO was only available on tractors that had the 5 speed transmission on a Ford. Our neighbors had one, only way they could get it was with the 5 speed.



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old

02-16-2014 11:55:57




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 Re: Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth in reply to J. Schwiebert, 02-16-2014 09:53:52  
You are sort of right. The 800/801 series the 5 speed with the double clutch was the live PTO set up an the 2nd number in the model was what told you it had live PTO that being a 6. There was also the 800/850 which had a 5 speed but non-live PTO. It was also true in many other models like the 660/661 etc. Just for your info



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Wyman Skaggs

02-16-2014 09:52:06




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 Re: Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth in reply to Wyman Skaggs, 02-16-2014 08:50:55  
Thank you for the response.

Wyman



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wisbaker

02-16-2014 09:20:35




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 Re: Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth in reply to Wyman Skaggs, 02-16-2014 08:50:55  
Various terms to cover various products. For what I've learned and remembered Live power indicated you could start and stop tractor ground movement with out stopping the PTO. This is real handy if you're baling, running a combine, corn picker or other type of harvester. Some of the early live power tractors simply added a clutch somewhere in the driveline after the PTO to allow starting and stopping but maybe not gear changes or even turning the PTO on or off without stopping the tractor. Some manufacturers came up with what is known as independent PTO meaning you can start or stop tractor ground speed with out effecting the PTO as well as turning on or off the PTO without effecting the ground speed. Or to put it another way the PTO and traction drives are completely separate or independent of each other. Another variation was the two stage clutch where the same pedal has two positions, one for the traction drive (usually 1/2 way) and another for everything (traction AND PTO all the way down). The two stage clutch seemed to be the way Ford and Massey Ferguson tended to do things, the only older Fords I ever saw with independent PTO were the old Select-O-Shifts. According to Tractor House data if you've got an 850 you have transmission or non-live/independent PTO. On that series the 820 had no PTO or 3 point ot Hydraulics, the 850 3 point, hydraulics & transmission PTO and the 860 3 point & live PTO (IIRC a dual clutch).

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old

02-16-2014 11:59:03




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 Re: Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth in reply to wisbaker, 02-16-2014 09:20:35  
There was also the system A/C used with a foot clutch that stopped every thing and a hand clutch that only stopped forward movement of the tractor but the PTO kept running. Of all the live PTO set ups Oliver by far had the best set up with a PTO clutch so the engine/trans clutch had nothing to do with the PTO



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Mike(NEOhio)

02-16-2014 14:30:26




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 Re: Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth in reply to old, 02-16-2014 11:59:03  
This got me do wondering, old. I have three COOPs (Cockshutts before they became Olivers) and I recently got a 1550. Independent PTO on both are very similar. Who had it first? I always thought it was Cockshutt with the 1946 30s. I'm not familiar with the two digit Olivers.



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old

02-16-2014 14:35:48




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 Re: Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth in reply to Mike(NEOhio), 02-16-2014 14:30:26  
The way I understand it was that at that point in time Cockshutt and Oliver had some sort of business dealings with each other and due to that they both came out with the independent live PTO at the same point in time



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Mike(NEOhio)

02-16-2014 15:11:35




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 Re: Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth in reply to old, 02-16-2014 14:35:48  
OK. I've seen Cockshutts at shows that were two digit Olivers dressed in red. But I never knew if they had independent PTO. Either way they were years ahead of IH and JD.



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old

02-16-2014 15:21:45




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 Re: Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth in reply to Mike(NEOhio), 02-16-2014 15:11:35  
Oliver was years ahead of pretty much all the tractor companies in many many things. But behind as for a hyd lift system like Ford 3 point



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old

02-16-2014 09:10:45




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 Re: Live PTO Versus 2 Stage Clucth in reply to Wyman Skaggs, 02-16-2014 08:50:55  
Live PTO is when you push the clutch down the PTO still spins. On the Ford 2 stage clutch set ups you push the clutch half way down to stop the tractor but the PTO still spins. Now if you take say an Oliver tractor it has an independent PTO which means the clutch pedal does nothing at all to the PTO which is the best set up there is.
But no if you have a 850 you do not have live PTO since when you push the clutch down it stops the PTO and the tractor

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