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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000

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Glen83

11-23-2013 09:38:43
166.182.3.128



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The local station started putting 10% ethanol in their pump labeled Regular Unleaded without telling anyone. I filled the gas tank on my old Ford 3000 with this gas. Will the ethanol damage my 3000? Must I drain it out? Thanks....Glen




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69-3400

01-02-2014 07:52:01
166.182.3.238



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
Just to clarify... I am not opposed to using ethanol. It only causes problems when allowed to sit for an extended period of time. Three or four months over the winter should not be an issue, especially if the fuel tank is near full. I just finished making an engine run that was allowed to sit for 2+ years that didn't have stabilizers in it. The entire fuel system had to be cleaned out and both carbs were so bad they had to be sent out for overhaul. I had another one a couple of years ago where the carb had corroded so bad that I could not disassemble it. I don't think I have ever seen an issue with ethanol when the equipment was regularly used. Even straight, ethanol free, gas can gum things up if allowed to sit too long but it seems like it takes longer for it to sour than the ethanol blended gas.

Jeff

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69-3400

01-02-2014 07:26:33
166.182.3.58



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
What does the conversion take? I'm already way deeper into my tractor than I wanted to be thanks to shoddy previous owner maintenance. I should have known better than to buy this tractor for $2700 at an auction.

Jeff
This post was edited by 69-3400 at 07:27:59 01/02/14.



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fromill

01-01-2014 19:52:05
71.51.220.223



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
I use marine sta-bil or Seafoam in all my lawn mowers and my 861. No problems yet. Doubt I run the 861 20 hr a year and treat every time I put gas in it with the marine sta-bil.
http://www.goldeagle.com/mobile/products/product3CC6.aspx



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69-3400

01-01-2014 19:17:55
166.182.3.114



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
What would be the maximum octane allowed in these older tractors? 100 low lead (Avgas) is "clean" fuel that takes a very long time to go bad. It would be comparable to the original "leaded" premium. It does cost quite a bit more than the gas you buy in town.



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cbrown9064

01-01-2014 19:48:37
96.3.144.182



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to 69-3400, 01-01-2014 19:17:55  

69-3400 said: (quoted from post at 23:17:55 01/01/14) What would be the maximum octane allowed in these older tractors? 100 low lead (Avgas) is "clean" fuel that takes a very long time to go bad. It would be comparable to the original "leaded" premium. It does cost quite a bit more than the gas you buy in town.


100LL is $5.25/gal self serve, and $6.30/gal full serve in my neck of the woods.

Higher octane fuel is only useful for engines that can use it. In other words high compression engines with advanced timing or the ability to advance the timing to take advantage of the fuel. Most modern high performance cars can take advantage of higher octane (unleaded) fuel with advanced electronic engine management. They will adjust to run on lower octane, but run best on higher octane.

So, based on those two comments, why would you bother to run Avgas in a tractor? Stock components set to stock spec will not produce any more power. And it will cost you a boatload more.

On a side note 100LL is short for this world. Shell announced that they are close to releasing a "drop in" unleaded replacement for 100LL, but will probably cost even more than 100LL. I think diesels are the future of general aviation piston engines.
This post was edited by cbrown9064 at 19:54:27 01/01/14.

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69-3400

01-01-2014 20:11:38
166.182.3.209



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to cbrown9064, 01-01-2014 19:48:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

We will see how short it is. They have been trying to replace Avgas for years and have yet to find anything remotely close for performance. Ethanol is very corrosive to aluminum but Diesel should be okay for casual flying but the last I read on the subject they are a long way from having anything I can work behind.
As for the why Avgas in a tractor... I don't like recreational maintenance (even when paid to do it) so if it will save me from having to rebuild a carb or deal with ethanol induced corrosion because I let it sit too long then it is worth it. I have fired up and flown airplanes that sat for 3 years without adding stabilizers or fresh fuel.
Jeff

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Ultradog MN

01-02-2014 06:54:42
174.20.229.160



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to 69-3400, 01-01-2014 20:11:38  
If you are really concerned about gas with 10% ethanol causing problems in your tractor convert it to diesel.



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Royse

01-01-2014 19:48:18
69.36.49.186



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to 69-3400, 01-01-2014 19:17:55  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I can't say what the maximum would be, but I wouldn't
spend money on high priced Avgas or racing fuel.

They're low compression engines that will burn just about
anything, as NoNewParts said.

Funny, I was just having the conversation with my family

yesterday as to whether or not Dry-gas was still needed.



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cbrown9064

01-01-2014 19:52:21
96.3.144.182



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Royse, 01-01-2014 19:48:18  
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Royse...interesting point! I remember when I was a kid always having a bottle of HEAT around in case you got "bad gas" (water). I can't remember needing it in the last 20 years...



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Indiana Ken

12-17-2013 18:32:07
67.163.32.18



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
[quote="Sean in PA"](quoted from post at 07:25:41 12/17/13)
..... "If you have water in your fuel tank then you will want to have ethanol in there to help get rid of it. If you do not have water in your fuel tank, having ethanol in the fuel will not somehow magically allow water from the outside to penetrate into your fuel tank. Granted, some small amount of water vapor from any humid air in the tank above the fuel will get into the fuel, but there should not be enough air exchange with the outside air to allow for large enough amounts of humid air to

circulate into the top of the tank to pose a problem, If you have that much air exchange with the outside air, your bigger problems will be loss of fuel due to evaporation plus other contaminates like dust getting into the fuel tank."

Sean,

Very well stated.

Ken

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HCooke

11-24-2013 16:21:35
70.195.65.82



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  

I run all these vintage Fords (plus two more since this picture) on E10. It is all we have had in eastern MO for the last 15 years. I have no problems that I can attribute to fuel. I do use Stabil. I do not drain the carbs when storing. They will all start up next spring.

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barney stephens

11-24-2013 16:02:38
216.108.219.39



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
TO All--- here is some real good pros and cons on ethanol. Go to AACA FORUMS The antique auto owners and the effects it has on engines with carburetors.ASK any good small engine mechanic,and see what their opinions are.We have distributor here that will not store ethanol in any of his storage tanks.My personal opinion is it was a big mistake to ever blend alcohol with regular gas,in more ways than one.

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Sean in PA

11-24-2013 15:32:59
76.98.64.154



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
Glen83 - The best thing you can do to store your 3000 for the winter if you only have 10% ethanol available is to start the tractor and then close the fuel shut-off valve and let the engine run until it dies. Don't forget to turn the key off afterward so yo don't drain the battery. Then top the fuel tank off as full as you can get it. That will minimize the amount of water vapor in the air at the top of the tank can be absorbed into the fuel by the ethanol, plus it will empty the carburetor bowl as much as possible as well to help avoid issues that can be caused by fuel left in the carb evaporating and leaving varnish or other contaminates behind.

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NoNewParts

12-17-2013 06:19:54
67.240.141.151



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Sean in PA, 11-24-2013 15:32:59  

Sean in PA said: (quoted from post at 20:32:59 11/24/13) Glen83 - The best thing you can do to store your 3000 for the winter if you only have 10% ethanol available is to start the tractor and then close the fuel shut-off valve and let the engine run until it dies. Don't forget to turn the key off afterward so yo don't drain the battery. Then top the fuel tank off as full as you can get it. That will minimize the amount of water vapor in the air at the top of the tank can be absorbed into the fuel by the ethanol, plus it will empty the carburetor bowl as much as possible as well to help avoid issues that can be caused by fuel left in the carb evaporating and leaving varnish or other contaminates behind.


In addition to Sean's good advice,

any gas tractor that has a carb bowl drain should have the plug replaced with a draincock.

Moisture in fuel has always been a problem with tractors, condensation, etc.

as Sean said, run it dry, or open the drain and drain the carb after shutdown. (helps, if in closed shop, and don't want to get gassed)

also, good practice to open the drain a few seconds when you turn the gas on before starting. flushes out condensation and that red mist that gets by the screens.

Edit for the original poster...I wouldn't worry about it at all.

old tractor engines are pretty amazing on what they will run on,

as long as it's clean. Some of my tractors are my old fuel disposal system....old gas, mix, etc, strain it, mix with some fresh and dump it in. runs fine.

as far as alcohol, up here in the frozen North we've added some kind of alcohol to our cars (dry-gas) forever
This post was edited by NoNewParts at 06:39:52 12/17/13.

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Harmlar

11-24-2013 10:03:57
63.225.108.144



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
If you are looking for gas without ethanol try this pure-gas.org it will list every state and where to buy gas without ethanol



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maxwell99

11-24-2013 10:45:12
208.92.104.12



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Harmlar, 11-24-2013 10:03:57  
I had to take my 1958 Johnson boat motor to a guy that only works on old boat motors.

He rebuilt my carb and replaced all fuel lines so the old motor could run ethanol gas.

However, he told me not to use it until I had to, but all the carb gaskets and fuel lines would withstand it, if I did.

First time I used ethanol gas in my chain saws they both quit running and had to have carbs rebuilt to accept the gas. So I have had bad experience with ethanol gas, that is just my experience.

It appears others have had a much easier transition to ethanol.

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Pops1532

11-24-2013 08:05:35
68.58.114.55



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
There are two potential problems with ethanol. Rubber parts in older applications may not be compatible with ethanol. Your tractor probably has a steel fuel line. There were some issues with rubber tipped needle valves.
The other issue is ethanol absorbs moisture. Not a big deal if you run a lot of fuel through the system. It can be a problem if the vehicle or piece of equipment sits unused a lot.
Where ethanol causes the most problems is with vintage cars, or older small engines.

We've had E10 in my area since the mid 80's. I wish there was a non-ethanol option here. I still have a few older small engines that I'd use it in.

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Bill Allis

11-24-2013 06:17:36
69.207.42.247



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
WOW, No problems with ethanol in gas? It will eat rubber fuel lines, it will separate. Ethanol is water soluble, petroleum distillates are not.

Add $7.00 per gallon ethanol to $3.00 a gallon gasoline. The ethanol-gas mix costs more, is less efficient and you have to add a $20.00 a gallon additive to keep it from ruining your engines.

MAKES SENSE TO ME!



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Sean in PA

12-17-2013 06:25:41
76.98.64.154



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Bill Allis, 11-24-2013 06:17:36  
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That is why products like "Dry-Gas" work. They are ethanol based and when you add them to a fuel tank that has water contamination it mixes with both the water and the fuel to allow the water molecules to be suspended in the fuel so that if it is a a small enough percentage of the total it will pass through the system. The water won't burn, but it will be expelled through the exhaust.

Why people claim that ethanol "attracts" water is beyond me. If you have water in your fuel tank then you will want to have ethanol in there to help get rid of it. If you do not have water in your fuel tank, having ethanol in the fuel will not somehow magically allow water from the outside to penetrate into your fuel tank. Granted, some small amount of water vapor from any humid air in the tank above the fuel will get into the fuel, but there should not be enough air exchange with the outside air to allow for large enough amounts of humid air to circulate into the top of the tank to pose a problem, If you have that much air exchange with the outside air, your bigger problems will be loss of fuel due to evaporation plus other contaminates like dust getting into the fuel tank.

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MarkB_MI

11-24-2013 03:24:26
75.219.92.41



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
You've probably been running E10 in your tractor for YEARS. If it's going to cause damage, then the damage is done.



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soundguy

11-23-2013 14:15:36
207.30.46.70



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
been HAVING to use it unfortunately..



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maxwell99

11-23-2013 13:32:34
208.92.104.12



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
Glen,
I looked for a possible additive that you could add to your fuel tank to help the life span of your ethanol gas.

however, I did not get any good results:

looks like there is nothing out there that will allow you to keep the gas in your tank for any extended period of time, without it separating into gas/water.

guess this fuel does not give us problems in our vehicles as we drive them more and are continuing to add fresh fuel.

good luck,

read this information:

http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_engine_precautions.html

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Tom in TN

11-23-2013 13:24:05
70.210.16.91



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
I use ethanol gas in everything that I own. I actually think that it is 15% ethanol. I use it in my Ford 2000 tractor, Husquvarna chain saws, pressure washer, both portable generators, Gravely walk behind mower, every lawnmower on the place, Echo brand string trimmers, all of my cars and trucks, and anything else that I've missed that has a gasoline engine on it.

I've never had a minute's trouble from the gas. I leave it in the fuel tanks through the winter, and have never had trouble in the spring when I get the tool back out.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but in my experience, the hoopla about ethanol is just that - hoopla.

Tom in TN

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Sean in PA

11-24-2013 06:02:35
76.98.64.154



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Tom in TN, 11-23-2013 13:24:05  
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There has only been 10% ethanol around here for a long time, and I've been running everything on it with no ill effects.

15% ethanol was just approved by the EPA very recently, and it hasn't actually made it into any markets that I am aware of. I think that it is only approved for recent year cars and light trucks, not for off road equipment, motorcycles, boats or small engines, and they are working out the details on how it is to be labelled and dispensed. Their original idea was to allow blender pumps like they use now to blend regular and premium to get mid-grade, but instead it would be some method of blending the alcohol into the gas, but then actual tests were done and enough of the 15% alcohol fuel stays in the hose after pumping that they were going to require vehicles that it was not approved for to purchase a least 4 gallons of non-15% to guarantee that the alcohol level was low enough on that purchase to be safe for other other vehicle, but then someone pointed out to them that most motorcycles have fuel tanks smaller than 4 gallons, so now they're back at the drawing board.

E85, which is 85% ethanol has been on the market for a few years, and it is approved only for cars and light trucks that have been designed to use it. They usually have a badge on the rear of the vehicle that says "Flex-Fuel" or something like that.

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Larry NCKS

11-23-2013 15:08:12
70.195.5.95



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Tom in TN, 11-23-2013 13:24:05  
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x2- I've used ethanol in all my gasoline engines since it first became available again back in the 70s. Not a bit of trouble I could blame on ethanol.



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old

11-23-2013 11:50:51
209.86.226.34



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
Been using it in all my tractor for over a decade and have yet to have any problems



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maxwell99

11-23-2013 10:56:42
208.92.104.12



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
Glen,

I would try and keep the tank full if the tractor has to set for any period of time. Check with your local parts store, they may have some additive you can add to the tank to help with the moisture issue. Also I would buy the highest grade of gas you can buy.

My experience with this fuel, it can ruin old engines, many will just not run on it.

Others say different, but take your time, do not put it in all of your small engines at once.

Get on line any goggle non- ethanol gas, there may be a station that still sells non ethanol gas.

Good luck with those old motors.

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RickB

11-23-2013 09:48:56
69.195.55.117



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-23-2013 09:38:43  
10% "reformulated" gas is all that has been available "here" for more than a decade. It is a non-issue unless the fuel sits unused for long periods.



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Glen83

11-24-2013 09:21:20
166.182.3.138



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to RickB, 11-23-2013 09:48:56  
Thanks to all who have answered my post about using 10% ethanol in a Ford 3000. In reading all the responses, I think I might have a problem because I live in Iowa (and it is getting cold). I won't be using the 3000 any more until spring, so it must sit unused in an unheated pole barn all winter with the ethanol in it. Thanks again, guys, for taking the time to answer. Glen



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rustyfarmall

01-02-2014 07:30:24
208.126.186.41



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-24-2013 09:21:20  
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Glen83, you say you live in Iowa, and you just now are being exposed to ethanol? What rock did you just crawl out from under? Or maybe you just don't pay attention when you go down to the local fill-er-up gas station?

The vast majority of us who lve in Iowa have been using E10 for better than 30 years now and have never had a problem. In fact, I have a Farmall H setting in an unheated building, and it has E10 in the tank. It will start up and run any time I need it, even on a day like today when the temperature is 0 degrees. If my 63 year old Farmall will run on E10, your MUCH newer Ford should not have a problem with it.

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dyoungen

12-17-2013 05:11:41
71.28.40.179



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 Re: Using 10% ethanol in Ford 3000 in reply to Glen83, 11-24-2013 09:21:20  
here's a link for finding an ethonal free gas station. I've seen to many messed up carbs on small gas engines like chain saws mowers and even big gas engines. Talked to the mechanic at the local mower shop and he told me he's never had as much business as he's had since they introduced the 10% ethonal gas. Here's the link

http://pure-gas.org/



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