Ford 4000 Questions

SMOKEEATERFF

New User
Where to start? Well I have a 1971 Ford 4000 3
Cylinder Diesel. It still has the factory
generator on it. It has the gauge with
tach/proofmeter, fuel, temp, generator light and
oil light. It has been in our family for as long
as I can remember. My grandfather bought it used
and it was passed down to my dad and then to me. I
am in the process of fixing some items on it. I
just changed the oil, oil filter, tranny fluid,
rear axle fluid, wet bath fluid and lubed all
grease fittings. I am gonna changed the coolant in
it after I get new hoses and thermostat. I will
probably swap out the sender unit also. I just put
new tires on it last week because the old ones
were literally falling apart. Anyways I have
several questions.

1. The proofmeter and tach no longer work. I took
the cable loose and the cable turns inside the
sheath. I hooked it back into the tach/proofmeter
and was able to make the tach needle move. I took
it loose and hooked the other end back into the
generator and was able to turn the cable. I hooked
it back up but it would still not move. Took the
tach drive loose from the generator and it was
pretty clogged up with oil/dirt. Cleaned it up and
reinstalled but it would still not move. What
should I try next? Do I need a new tach drive,
cable or tach/proofmeter?

2. I took the instrument panel loose and took out
the tach/proofmeter. Like I said earlier I could
make the tach needle move but the proofmeter would
never turn. It was like it was frozen. Could the
tach/proofmeter be bad? Or is this to keep people
from messing with the hours? Guess this could
answer question 1.

3. While I had the instrument panel out I noticed
several wires were in pretty bad shape. Some had
rubbed nearly in to. I am surprised this tractor
has not caught on fire. Well I was going to hook
everything back up but I didn"t take a pic of the
layout and haven"t figured it out yet. I looked in
the service manual but the diagram doesn"t match
what I have concerning the wire colors. It appears
someone hacked on them in the past. I am thinking
of picking up a new harness from
yesterdaytractors.com or somewhere similar. Does
anyone have experience using a new harness? Is it
straight forward?

4. Before screwing with the instrument gauges I
got the cluster lights working. The generator
light came on and never went off. What could the
cause be?

5. Last but not least. The temp gauge works but it
moves over to red pretty quickly after cranking
it. Usually within a couple of minutes. The
coolant in it is pretty cool. The hoses don"t
really feel very firm but it has never boiled over
or anything. Thinking either the sender or the
temp gauge. Any opinions?

Thanks in advance. Oh and go easy on me I am not a
mechanic or electrician. I am learning as I go.
 
Tach drive - if you can get the tach to move when you drive the cable, and the tach drive moves the cable, then getting the tach drive to drive the tach should be just a matter of hooking it up so both ends are happy.

On one of my 4500s (an industrial 4000) the tach drive needed a small plastic shim to solve wear (the drive was not actually driving the cable without it - a restorer might have replaced the drive, I got it working and stopped.) A common problem on other things with this type of drive (I'm not sure how prone this particular one is, but plenty of motorcycles have a similar tach or speedometer drive) is not getting the inner cable seated well, so the thing is "together" but the inner cable isn't actually in, and does not get driven. Usually solved by undoing it, fiddling with the inner cable, and redoing it. The outer usually threads on further when it's happy.
 
1. The tach drive on the generator is probably stripped/worn out. Given that the charge light is on... it's probably not charging. Given this situation I'd probably opt for the alternator conversion for that tractor that includes a tach drive on a Delco 10si alternator. YT sells the kit.
2. If the tach needle moves the cluster is probably OK. The proof meter won't move until you get some sustained use on it as it's tied to the tach internally.
3. Wiring... you can buy a harness but for an many wires is on that thing (plus considering you're going to convert to an alternator) it's probably just easier to patch/repair what's there and reconfigure the rest as necessary. If you have a wiring diagram that's about 90% of the chore... so follow that and you should be able to make it work.
4. covered in #1.

5. That could be one of two things. Either the voltage stabilizer on the backside of the fuel gauge is bad and allowing full voltage to go to the instruments... or the wire to the temp sender is bare and finding a direct ground path. Third option is a bad/shorted sender. Of the three possibilities odds on one and two are about even. Bad sender is very rare...

Rod
 
I'm gonna stay with the generator instead of swapping to the alt conversion. I ordered the wiring harness, new radiator hoses, thermostat and temp sender, tach drive with gear. Gonna see how it turns out.
 
Repairing generators on those things is a lost cause... Between the drive you need and the generator and regulator you're going to need you'll have as much money into it as an alternator kit with the added bonus that with the generator... you'll get to do it all over again, sooner than later. I don't think I've ever seen one of them charge longer than 3 months from having had all new components installed.

Rod
 
Gotta agree with Rod on this one, with all the parts you're buying, I'd go alternator.

I've got one 5000 got converted about 3 years ago, it's great. when it still had the generator, that tractor would need a new regulator every 5-6 months...or whenever hay season rolled around and I needed it daily.

But I've got another 5000 still has the genny, and that one has not been worked on electrically in 2-1/2 years.

Got a recently acquired 4000 that's not charging...nothing even if I full field it. If all it needs is brushes, I'll try the generator for a while, anything beyond that and it's getting an alternator.

Good luck

Fred
 
The gear in tack drive may be stripped. When you replace with new drive be sure and fill housing with a good lubricant. Assembly grease works good. I always use the generator on all my tractors that came with them. They worked for years so why change. You just have to know how to repair or know someone that can repair it correctly. That is the problem I have found, young folks just don't know.
 
(quoted from post at 10:02:40 10/03/13) Where to start? Well I have a 1971 Ford 4000 3
Cylinder Diesel. It still has the factory
generator on it. It has the gauge with
tach/proofmeter, fuel, temp, generator light and
oil light. It has been in our family for as long
as I can remember. My grandfather bought it used
and it was passed down to my dad and then to me. I
am in the process of fixing some items on it. I
just changed the oil, oil filter, tranny fluid,
rear axle fluid, wet bath fluid and lubed all
grease fittings. I am gonna changed the coolant in
it after I get new hoses and thermostat. I will
probably swap out the sender unit also. I just put
new tires on it last week because the old ones
were literally falling apart. Anyways I have
several questions.

1. The proofmeter and tach no longer work. I took
the cable loose and the cable turns inside the
sheath. I hooked it back into the tach/proofmeter
and was able to make the tach needle move. I took
it loose and hooked the other end back into the
generator and was able to turn the cable. I hooked
it back up but it would still not move. Took the
tach drive loose from the generator and it was
pretty clogged up with oil/dirt. Cleaned it up and
reinstalled but it would still not move. What
should I try next? Do I need a new tach drive,
cable or tach/proofmeter?

2. I took the instrument panel loose and took out
the tach/proofmeter. Like I said earlier I could
make the tach needle move but the proofmeter would
never turn. It was like it was frozen. Could the
tach/proofmeter be bad? Or is this to keep people
from messing with the hours? Guess this could
answer question 1.

3. While I had the instrument panel out I noticed
several wires were in pretty bad shape. Some had
rubbed nearly in to. I am surprised this tractor
has not caught on fire. Well I was going to hook
everything back up but I didn"t take a pic of the
layout and haven"t figured it out yet. I looked in
the service manual but the diagram doesn"t match
what I have concerning the wire colors. It appears
someone hacked on them in the past. I am thinking
of picking up a new harness from
yesterdaytractors.com or somewhere similar. Does
anyone have experience using a new harness? Is it
straight forward?

4. Before screwing with the instrument gauges I
got the cluster lights working. The generator
light came on and never went off. What could the
cause be?

5. Last but not least. The temp gauge works but it
moves over to red pretty quickly after cranking
it. Usually within a couple of minutes. The
coolant in it is pretty cool. The hoses don"t
really feel very firm but it has never boiled over
or anything. Thinking either the sender or the
temp gauge. Any opinions?

Thanks in advance. Oh and go easy on me I am not a
mechanic or electrician. I am learning as I go.


I find that once I change out the generator and voltage regulator, that they are very reliable. Yes some of the voltage regulators are touchy but once I get them to work, they stay working. So once every 30 years per tractor is not a bad lick.

I have had a few voltage regulators that cleaning the contacts on and then setting the kickout relay tension, that did not work from start to the garbage can, but most work out with a bit of cleaning and then work fine for many years. I buy gennys 5 at a time, and same for vr's and each tractor that comes through, get fixed up if needed. Some of the gennys have the worm gear worn off the back so even a new gear wont fix em.
 

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