no hydraulics

rhodech

Member
Hello, I have a 1958 or 59 641 I think, it has a hydraulic lift, PTO, and 4 speed with a perkins diesel motor, my dad got this tractor from the original owner in '73, my brother drove this thing in the ground, he thought it was a bulldozer, and it set out in the weather along time, anyway, In was reading some old posts and decided to join,this is what I got going on, milky air bubbles, and only have one bleed valve, used to run for 10 min before lift would work, pulled off cap under seat to look at ram, fluid is clean, and about 5 tiny air bubbles, but no other movement than that, my need the pump rebuilt, any help would be good, my dad and I were trying to fix it but he got sick and passed away last Aug.Just need to pick somebody's brain, thanks
 
You will need to do a little more research and tell us what kind of a tractor you actually have.
Ford did put a 4 cylinder diesel engine in the late 50s 641s but it definately was not a Perkins. Perkins were only used in the Fordsons as Sean suggests and they were 3 cylinder, not 4.

Here is a 641. It's a gasser but they look the same as a diesel.

1958_Ford_641.gif


Here is a Fordson Dexta.
Very different.

715.jpg
 
Welcome to the forum rhodech.

I'm not too sure about your engine description, but if its a 601 series tractor, the hydraulics are all the same.

You say the oil is milky and full of air bubbles. How are you seeing this? This is a classic sign of a suction side air leak on the hydraulic pump along with water in the oil. Usually a pump seal problem and contaminated oil from sitting out in the weather.

Tell us more!
 
I agree with Kurt's comment about a suction side
air leak. We were Ford dealers in those yrs and
it was common-need to rpl o rings. To get it
going we used to pump compressed air into the
oil dipstick tube and sometimes that would be
enough to bring the oil into the pump as a temp
fix. Chuck
 
well it looks just like the red tractor, not the blue, I was always told it was a Perkins engine, but may be wrong, but it is a 4 cyl. diesel or multifuel as it says under the hood, just wish it looks as good as the red one, oneday, and getting the milky air bubbles at bleeder screw with the engine running at idle, used to could crack it to get it to raise, not any more, I did look, at fill cap under seat and no action was going on in there at all, thanks for the comments.
 
I understand the oil looks milky because of air, but the oil where the cylinder is is clean, just changed it a couple of months ago, and am going to change the boot for the shifter, and the gasket around shifter plate,
 
Sounds like you have 641D. That helps quite a bit.

Air in the oil causes the bubbles, water causes oil to turn milky.

Have you tried bleeding the pump? It sounds like you have removed the pipe plug from the front of the pump with the tractor running and that is where you saw the oil was full of bubbles and looked milky. Did that help the lift at all?

One thing to try, its requires about $20 in fittings. With the tractor off, remove the bleeder plug from the front of the piston pump. The get some pipe fittings. from the plug hole insert a short nipple, an elbow, a longer nipple, then a ball valve, and finally a hose barb. From the hose barb run a piece of clear plastic hose back to the hydraulic fill port under the seat. Insert the hose.

Once everything is installed and tight, close the valve and start the tractor. Now slowly open the valve. You should see oil flowing through the tube and back into the sump. If it is clear your pump is OK, if it is full of bubbles, let it run for a while, it may clear up. Then close the valve and see if the lift works.

My guess is that you will see bubbles and that this gets the lift going. If yes, and you let the tractor sit overnight, you will loose the lift again. This is a sign of a leaking wobble shaft seal in pump. We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
 
thanks will try that, when I get the supplies, did try to bleeed the pump, this used to work, but it's past that point, thanks
 
(quoted from post at 17:01:22 07/29/13) Hello, I have a 1958 or 59 641 I think, it has a hydraulic lift, PTO, and 4 speed with a perkins diesel motor, my dad got this tractor from the original owner in '73, my brother drove this thing in the ground, he thought it was a bulldozer, and it set out in the weather along time, anyway, In was reading some old posts and decided to join,this is what I got going on, milky air bubbles, and only have one bleed valve, used to run for 10 min before lift would work, pulled off cap under seat to look at ram, fluid is clean, and about 5 tiny air bubbles, but no other movement than that, my need the pump rebuilt, any help would be good, my dad and I were trying to fix it but he got sick and passed away last Aug.Just need to pick somebody's brain, thanks

First I want to say I'm sorry to hear about your dad, and I'm glad to hear that you're continuing on with this project. That's a great tribute to him.

I'm not sure I understand the symptoms exactly. First you say this:

this is what I got going on, milky air bubbles

Then you say this:

pulled off cap under seat to look at ram, fluid is clean, and about 5 tiny air bubbles

Where are you seeing the milky fluid that is full of air bubbles if you can see clean fluid through the cap under the seat?

It may be just a suction side leak, as enough air bubbles will look like foam and cause a white milky color without any water contamination. Water contamination will usually look more like chocolate milk.
 
well, it used to have milky fluid, but drained it, and refilled with new, the fluid at the pump has alot of air in it, so thats why I said that, not to throw everyone off, thanks for the help, going to try the trick of blowing air in the dipstick hole, and let everyone know what happens
 
My guess is that you have blown the wobble shaft seal. Usually the seal wears a groove in the wobble shaft, so that needs to be replaced too. To do that new bearings are required. You can get a kit to replace the piston springs, check valve balls, and check valve springs also. Well worth it while the pump is apart.

I think pulling the pump for a rebuild is the right thing to so. A rebuild is 3-4hrs labor and about $150-175 in aftermarket parts. More $$'s if CHN parts are used. YT has the parts.

Hope that helps. Keep us posted on how things work out.
 
yeah, well it is the best place to start, will let every one knows how it turns out, and thanks to everyone for the advice and kind words, In should start this weekend if the weather permits
 

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