Anti Cavitation Treatment?

Laneman

Member
I recently read that diesel engines need anti cavitation fluid added to the coolant. Does this apply to my 1973 diesel 3000? If so where can I get it? I called auto parts stores and the Case/New Holland dealer, no one knows what I'm talking about
 
Your New Holland dealer will be able to help you out. Your tractor is a 3 cyclinder. Most of the problems occured in the 4 cyclinders. My dealer doesn't recommend using additive in 3 cyclinders.
 
The additive is called SCA. You can buy it at NAPA or you can buy anti-freeze that already has it mixed in. You can buy test strips that you dip into the coolant to test for the proper mixture of SCA in the coolant.
 
(quoted from post at 18:20:13 07/16/13) I recently read that diesel engines need anti cavitation fluid added to the coolant. Does this apply to my 1973 diesel 3000? If so where can I get it? I called auto parts stores and the Case/New Holland dealer, no one knows what I'm talking about

Ford used to call the product FW-15. It should still be available in Motorcraft with that part number. NalCool is now called PenCool. Should be available at most auto parts stores. Caterpillar sells DEAC straight coolant which has the additive. if you want a premix, buy CAT ELC. As suggested above, JD sells a similar product. Hopefully their parts guy will know what he's doing. I've find NH's recommendation not to use a coolant additive in the three cylinders frightening.
 
(quoted from post at 02:20:13 07/17/13) I recently read that diesel engines need anti cavitation fluid added to the coolant. Does this apply to my 1973 diesel 3000? If so where can I get it? I called auto parts stores and the Case/New Holland dealer, no one knows what I'm talking about
f your owner's manual didn't call for it and the tractor didn't come from the factory with it...........then it is probably snake oil.
 
I think cavitation was a problem on the 3 cyl diesels. Board member FordFarmer had to have his 4600 sleeved as did my friend Kenny on his 4600.
Both due to cavitation.
I think the part # of the stuff from CNH is FW 15. Here's what it looks like.

100_0934.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 00:12:35 07/17/13)If your owner's manual didn't call for it and the tractor didn't come from the factory with it...........then it is probably snake oil.

I agree with Bern. This is not snake oil!

I bought a new tractor in 1976. Within a month or two of my purchase, this same model began being factory fitted with a coolant filter. My owner's manual didn't mention it, but upon asking service personnel at the dealership about the wisdom of it I decided it needed one. Since neither my selling dealer nor the company would do a retrofit; I went to a neighboring dealership, bought the kit and installed it myself.
 
(quoted from post at 06:58:40 07/17/13)
I agree coolant conditioner isn't snake oil. I also don't see how a 3 cyl engine is safe from cavitation.

I don't think the 3 cylinder engines are safe from it. I know I've read of at least a few folks who had to have theirs sleeved because of it. I just think that the cylinder walls might be a little thicker than they were on the earlier 4 cylinders, so it might take longer for the damage to be noticed, plus they're newer so they haven't had as many years/hours of being worked hard on average as most of the earlier 4 cylinders have had, so again the damage hasn't caused as many leaks .... yet.
 
I assure you sir it is not snake oil. I have resleeved close to 50 of these engines that have had cavitation holes in the cylinders. Have also replaced many wet sleeves with holes in them on other brands of engines.I have never had to do one the second time,once the conditioner was used faithfully.
 
Plain and simple... they're not. I have a 3 cylinder 201 block around here somewhere that cavitated. They all need conditioner. I use FG DCA4.

Rod
 
It's not snake oil.
Back in the day we had 3 diesel powered firewater pumps at out plant.
Two of them developed severe damage from not being treated.
After rebuilds they were fitted with coolant filters with protection built in as well as a liquid that was added to the coolant. We were also to test the coolant mix once a month to monitor it's status.
At that time I was told this problem was peculiar to stationery diesels. Sounds like Mustang Equipment was wrong.
Now you've got me wondering about my 2 cylinder Kubota.
 
I suspect that 4-cylinder engines are more prone to cavitation erosion than 3-cylinder engines because 4-cylinder engines are naturally more vibration prone (they need harmonic balancers), and vibration is what causes cavitation in the first place.

Having said that, my theory is nuked with the 6-cylinders, because when it comes to Fords, 6-cylinder engines (mostly TW models) were the worst for this problem. I suspect the 6-cylinder engines had thinner cylinder walls, although that is purely speculation on my part.
 
(quoted from post at 10:25:13 07/17/13) Larry,

Which model came factory equipped with a coolant filter in 1976? Do you mean 1986 by chance?

Nope! 1976 IH 986 - by early 77 anyway.
 
(quoted from post at 15:26:14 07/17/13)
I was just informed that cavitation is only a problem on sleeved motors.
True?
have found articles that indicate that is "worse" on sleeved engines, worse on a thin wall cast/non-sleeved than on thick wall cast. Also, that it is almost never a problem except on diesels, primarily due to the vibratory spikes resulting from spike rise of high combustion pressures.
Some say Ford's 7.3 cast/non-sleeve is worse than 6.9, because with the overbore, walls are thinner. So, "only" is not a good word, here.
 
(quoted from post at 12:26:14 07/17/13)
I was just informed that cavitation is only a problem on sleeved motors.
True?

The Fords are parent bore, no sleeves.

Cavitation erosion is not limited to the cylinder walls and will occur anywhere there is coolant. The early blocks, 65 to mid 70-s, did not seem to suffer from erosion as much as those that followed. Not sure why. We always assumed a change in metallurgy.
 
I don't know precisely when it started, but those years sound reasonable for the beginning of thin wall castings in engine blocks, so maybe...............
 
Nope. Happens on parent bore engines also.

Ford went to great lengths to reduce the possibility of cavitation erosion with the Genesis series blocks. If they never had a problem in the past, they would not have made the changes. You could pretty much count on any TW block made in the 1980s to pinhole within 5000 hours or less.
 
Hello Bern , The most notorious Ford for Cavitation problems is the Mid to late 80's 555's , I have yet to see one that did not ruin the block . We are just finishing up one for the original owner with less than 4000 hours on it and he was using the Cat Additive same as I use since it was new , sleeved all three cylinders in it . Block prior to 82 / 83 were always good and the later 92 / 93 were redesigned and much thicker with the webbing on the outside all the 201's in between are candidates for sleeves at every rebuild just to be safe . Thanks Tony
 
We were primarily an ag dealer, and we could count on almost every mid 80s TW doing it. We sold a few TLBs as well, and I don't recall seeing any of those fail.
 
to answer the original post.

Yes, you need it. It doesn't mater how old, you should do it.



Try Napa. They have diesel coolant that has it in it. Just buy that. You are good.


Otherwise, you would worry about it.
 
(quoted from post at 02:29:07 07/18/13) to answer the original post.

Yes, you need it. It doesn't mater how old, you should do it.



Try Napa. They have diesel coolant that has it in it. Just buy that. You are good.


Otherwise, you would worry about it.

Too generic! Even if the coolant has it in it, it becomes depleted - unless it's ELC.
 
(quoted from post at 06:25:15 07/18/13) Dealer doesn't recommend it for 3 cylinders, but it probably wouldn't hurt right?

NO coolant conditioner won't hurt any type of liquid colled engine that I'm aware of. I be curious to know what makes a 3 cyl immune from cavitation problems.
 
The 201 block I have laying around was from a loader tractor... late 70's vintage. Might have been a 545...
I think they were all susceptible. That said, mine are a '66, '74, '85, '91 and '98 and none have pinholed yet... though I do use the conditioner.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 08:29:07 07/18/13) to answer the original post.

Yes, you need it. It doesn't mater how old, you should do it.



Try Napa. They have diesel coolant that has it in it. Just buy that. You are good.


Otherwise, you would worry about it.
Can I just put this in my radiator? How much?

150_13204-1.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 07:23:42 07/18/13)
(quoted from post at 08:29:07 07/18/13) to answer the original post.

Yes, you need it. It doesn't mater how old, you should do it.



Try Napa. They have diesel coolant that has it in it. Just buy that. You are good.


Otherwise, you would worry about it.
Can I just put this in my radiator? How much?

150_13204-1.jpg

No, try some Preparation H.
 

Did I ruffle some feathers?

Last time I try posting from my phone with autotype!



Don't try the colgate, go with aquafresh. It has a better taste, I case you end up under the tractor, with that antifreeze dripping in your face!
 
(quoted from post at 03:43:14 07/18/13)
(quoted from post at 02:29:07 07/18/13) to answer the original post.

Yes, you need it. It doesn't mater how old, you should do it.



Try Napa. They have diesel coolant that has it in it. Just buy that. You are good.


Otherwise, you would worry about it.

Too generic! Even if the coolant has it in it, it becomes depleted - unless it's ELC.

SCA napa is labeled as ELC!!!!


so where is the difference?


Of course go with New Holland FW-15, but if the dealer doesn't even know what it is or care to sell it, then I dont' know what else to say except getting Napa diesel coolant SCA.


OR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OR!!!!!!!!!!



like back in the day, you could put a tablespoon of dot3 brake fluid int eh coolant. That is what a lot of the guys did way back when around here for heavy machines (I'm in coal strip mine country)


Like I said(or tried to say in my original post) anything is better than nothing. and autotype ruined most of my post.
 
(quoted from post at 02:29:07 07/18/13)
SCA napa is labeled as ELC!!!!


so where is the difference?

Extended Life Coolant, otherwise known as OAT (Organic Acid Technology), NOAT (Nitrited OAT) or HOAT (Hybrid OAT)does not need Supplemental Coolant Additive. It is formulated with everything it needs for 1 million miles, 20,000 hours or 8 years of service. Here's one example: http://www.phillips66lubricants.com/documents/antifreeze_coolants/FinalChargeNOAT_50-50_TDS.pdf

If NAPA is advertising ELC and coolant with SCA as the same thing, they don't know what they're talking about and should be avoided.
 
(quoted from post at 00:34:53 07/19/13)
Did I ruffle some feathers?

Last time I try posting from my phone with autotype!



Don't try the colgate, go with aquafresh. It has a better taste, I case you end up under the tractor, with that antifreeze dripping in your face!

My comment wasn't aimed at you John. Napa additive used to be made by the folks at NalCool now PenCool. I don't know if that holds true today. It won't be long before that phone starts telling you what to say.
 
we better get on Napa's azz.


Go check their stores. What else do you want me to say?
Check the back of the gallon jug. Look at the list of manufactures that are compliant?

You think Ambra is good? buy a bulk 35 gal G134... Tell me what kind of turds you pull from the pump!
 

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