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Think I found my hydraulic pump noise

B

Bill Radford

Member
To all the guys that posted re hydraulic pump
noise:
After work I went out and pulled the pump.
The good news:
the cam gear is solid and straight. No appreciable
wear on the gear. When I start the engine there is
nothing but the normal valve train/timing gear
noise
More good news: the pistons underneath the wobble
plate all feel good with good spring action and
suction. I think that the piston end of the pump
is a- ok.
Bad news:
When I look at the pump gear, it rotates with a
wobble. The gear is supposed to turn straight but
it appears that it is crooked in the housing. The
wobble shaft has around 2 mm of thrust from inside
to outside. I think the bearing is bad and the
shaft is crooked.
Think I'll replace the bearing and check the shaft
and gear.May wind up replacing gear, wobble shaft
and bearing. Much better than it could have been..
Thanks again
Bill
 
Good to hear you found the problem Bill. Let me know if you need help rebuilding that pump. It takes a shop press and a torch, welder or die grinder to get the main bearing cup out. Kinda tricky if you've never done this kind of work before. Also, there are two bearings and a seal in there. All need to be replaced. Check the wobble shaft, if there is a groove where the seal rides, replace the wobble shaft.

Fun!
 
Good to hear you found the problem Bill. Let me know if you need help rebuilding that pump. It takes a shop press and a torch, welder or die grinder to get the main bearing cup out. Kinda tricky if you've never done this kind of work before. Also, there are two bearings and a seal in there. All need to be replaced. Check the wobble shaft, if there is a groove where the seal rides, replace the wobble shaft.

Fun!
 
Kurt
I was very happy that the cam gear on the back of
the engine was ok
I think the wobble in the gear is because of the
slop in the bearing.. I dont know for sure but I
think that there should not be a whole lot of
thrust in the system.
I may check with my mechanic friend about
replacing the bearing.. he has original Ford tools
for pulling the bearing come, etc.
Thanks again for your help
Bill
 
Guess what... I went out to the shop and... took out the 7/16 bolt and washers. Drove the wobble shaft out with a flat end drift and guess why the gear spun crooked...some genius had put a gear on the splined shaft and the gear did not have splines.. just kind of sat on the splines.
Took a fine file and cleaned up the splines a bit. looked fine.
Now for the best part!
Bearings looked fine and shaft rotated smoothly. I dont think I'll have to replace anything but the gear.
In Medicine we have a term for this type of thing.. Iatrogenic disease or disease caused by a medical provider.
I think I have seen the mechanical equivalent.
Now off at lunch to the CNH dealer down the street to order a gear and we should be in quite good shape!
Bill
 
Final word:
Spines were worn out on gear, wobble shaft and bearings were toast. Ordered parts.
Front of pump (piston side) OK
If that had continued to be run like it was, failure would have been nasty. As it is, cam gear is ok and will not have to split the tractor.
Coulda been a lot worse.
Veteran CNH mechanic has agreed to install bearings etc and set up gear/shaft etc for 1 hour of labor since I got parts from CNH (when you count shipping, they were very competitive w/online prices)
Local dealer had it all except for the gear.. will be in this thursday and hopefully I'll bolt it all up Friday night.
Moral of the story: Listen to your tractor!
 
Sounds like you are coming out smelling like a rose! And having the bearings changed for 1 hour of shop time is a bargain. I had much more time than that just getting the bearing cone out of the housing, but maybe they have the proper tools. Or maybe there is a trick I didn"t know about. Working with a die grinder worked for me, but it was WAY slow.

With the looseness you described, I would advise replacing the roller bearing AND the needle bearings, as the old ones are probably destroyed. I think I would ask to see the removed parts, "just to see how bad they are", to make sure they actually change both bearings.

I agree with you, listening to your machines is really important. I would be slightly concerned about wear to the rear camshaft gear from the poor mesh the old gear on the pump had with it. When you get it back together, if it doesn"t sound right, I would suggest shutting it right down, as you still may need to replace that drive gear to avoid further damage. Hope you don"t, and it will work OK. Good luck!
 
The mechanic has got all of the original Ford tools (dealer has been in business for over 50 years)including the factory "push puller" for the bearing race.
I've got the bearing, race,needle bearing, o rings, wobble shaft and gasket in a box.Housing has been stripped and has been in the "tank" and cleaned. He wants me to run over there after lunch Friday and we'll rebuild it (he says he wants someone to know all this stuff when he's gone since he turns 70 this year)He grew up working on this stuff.
Cam gear looks very good, my mechanic says we may have a slight whine due to putting an old gear with a new gear, but it will go away after they wear in.
I was prepared to split her and replace cam gear but was advised that as long as it was not loose or severely worn we would be ok
 
I sure would like to see how he gets that race out. That is the hard part of a rebuild. Ask him if he would be willing to share a photo or two of his Ford tools.
 
(quoted from post at 08:50:59 07/10/13) The mechanic has got all of the original Ford tools (dealer has been in business for over 50 years)including the factory "push puller" for the bearing race.
I've got the bearing, race,needle bearing, o rings, wobble shaft and gasket in a box.Housing has been stripped and has been in the "tank" and cleaned. He wants me to run over there after lunch Friday and we'll rebuild it (he says he wants someone to know all this stuff when he's gone since he turns 70 this year)He grew up working on this stuff.
Cam gear looks very good, my mechanic says we may have a slight whine due to putting an old gear with a new gear, but it will go away after they wear in.
I was prepared to split her and replace cam gear but was advised that as long as it was not loose or severely worn we would be ok
Click to expand...

good deal
man, I would jump at that chance
common sense is ok, books are good, the archives here
on an unusual job are great,
but there is nothing like watching a master's hands at work to
teach a job.
Most of my 'teachers' are gone now, and I only wish I could have
watched them more.
 
So true..
I am trying to learn as much as I can. Even though I am not young myself by any stretch of the imagination, it pains me to see how much old school knowlege is lost everyday. There was an old guy in my home town, he was a mechanic all of his life, when I was a kid he taught me how to set up points in a distributor. He got alzheimers and when he died he didnt know who he was. So sad.
I went to Dental school in the late 70's and had the chance to study under some of the developers of the technology we have today. One of my favorite professors was a guy that did a lot of development work on the air driven tools that we use today and developed many of the burs and diamonds used in todays high speed tools in Dentistry and was also one of the pioneers in development of the cosmetic bonding techniques we use today.He helped to write the books that were used in dental education all over the world for the last 50 years
He's still living (almost 100 years old) and still sharp as a tack.
A national treasure.
 
Here's the secret...
The tool is a big blue box with "Miller" on the side.
Ran a bead around it and it shrunk.. I dont have he guts to do that YET.
 
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