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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

Re: Ford 901 Select O Speed Mystery

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JChamp

05-18-2013 16:10:56
76.224.213.195



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I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. You jump in this thread as an a**, you continued as an a** and when called on it, you remain an a** and idiotically rationalize it as some sort of butthurt PC response.

And if that weren't enough, you continually distort my statements to fit your bullsh*t narrative. Not once did I say that Ford engineers would design anything so cheap, back in the day, as to only last long enough to get past a warranty. Additionally, not once did I state that they purposely designed them with "inferior "parts. (Of note: You won't get an argument out of me as to as to whether products were made better back then, of course they were.)

What you seem utterly incapable of understanding, however, is exactly how design and manufacturing works on that scale. I'll dumb it down for you; Of course the engineers would prefer to create a work of art out of shiny, exotic materials that never wear out and send the ladies into a frenzy. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way in the real world as to do so would place it firmly out of the reach of its target audience. So what do they do? They find the best compromise between cost, durability and risk of course. (GM gas tanks, silver paint - FORD f'ing PINTO anyone?) The list is a mile long, and we end up with things that will, and should fail.

Inferior? Well, when compared to manna from heaven, yes. For real world applications? Not so much, as the longevity we've already established clearly illustrates.
THAT is why I stated that Ford would NEVER have produced a "tube made of diamonds" for these particular tractors and as such, I rightfully asked what material might have been the best to use - IF THE ENGINEERS WOULD HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY.
And THAT is why discussions should absolutely be had to improve designs that we have the hind-sight to see need improvement. ESPECIALLY those failures that are relatively commonplace as opposed to believing that there can be no improvement. No one is 'complaining' here.

Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

And clearly you were wrong.

Now you can continue to be an a**, or you could get off your high-horse, your choice.

Why not attempt to answer the question? Or leave it to someone better equipped to think outside your box.

Makes no difference to me, I simply wish to foster a discussion between level-headed folks.

And with that, I say good day to you sir.

.

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Royse

05-18-2013 19:09:25
69.36.49.151



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 Re: Ford 901 Select O Speed Mystery in reply to JChamp, 05-18-2013 16:10:56  
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Tony certainly does not need my help, or anyone else's for that matter.

But this profanity laced response is so far off the originally posted topic

that it is not even tractor related.
I doubt anyone has pulled a plow with a Pinto.

I wish you good luck trying to get help from other forums.



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JChamp

05-19-2013 06:40:47
76.224.213.195



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 Re: Ford 901 Select O Speed Mystery in reply to Royse, 05-18-2013 19:09:25  
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Thanks for your concern, but as a member of dozens of forums, I rarely have any problem receiving or providing help.
And although unprovoked arrogance / condescending attitudes do have a tendency to set me off, it usually ends with a mutual agreement on at least one point or another.

.



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TONY JACOBS

05-18-2013 18:47:43
172.162.197.154



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 Re: Ford 901 Select O Speed Mystery in reply to JChamp, 05-18-2013 16:10:56  
I will as you say DUMB IT DOWN FOR YOU I answered the question in my FIRST POST . The pressure tube in a S.O.S. TRANS. cracks and breaks in a Diesel equipped tractor because of the Harmonic Vibrations created from the Diesel engine , especially ones that are not properly balanced to begin with , which these 172's and 192's and 144's are not and the reason why a Balancer kit was added as an afterthought . If you replace with a used one from a Gas engine trans. the problem is solved as I said in my first post so all of the ramblings of Mickey Mouse repairs and so called better materials are pure bulls**t because the tube was NEVER the problem the DIESEL ENGINE IS THE PROBLEM and if you bothered to read that I would not be wasting my time responding to you about absolutely nothing .

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JChamp

05-19-2013 07:30:30
76.224.213.195



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 Re: Ford 901 Select O Speed Mystery in reply to TONY JACOBS, 05-18-2013 18:47:43  
Fair enough but that still begs questions...

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How exactly would that help? Would it not be subject to the same vibration damage as the diesel version, or was it made from different material? Or, would it too be considered a 'temporary' fix? (sans 'balancer')

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Huh. an improvement on a design, imagine that- though I can't find any solid information on this kit, specific to the 172cid Diesel/901 series that is.
Have any links?

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TONY JACOBS

05-20-2013 11:30:20
172.129.37.138



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 Re: Ford 901 Select O Speed Mystery in reply to JChamp, 05-19-2013 07:30:30  
It will help because the gas engine does not create the harmonic vibrations that the diesel engine does . The vibrations come from the firing pulses in the engine the gas engine has about 7.1 compression ratio and the diesel has a 17.1 compression ratio so when it fires the force of the explosion in the cylinder in the diesel is much more violent than that of the gas which causes the vibration . As I said before if you were to x-ray or look at the tube under a microscope you see cracks that look like shattered tempered glass resulting in plain ole metal fatigue so by using the gas engine tube it is the closest thing to a NEW tube for less money . The balancer kit was added to almost every tractor with a Diesel engine in it . All 1958 and 1959 were add on kits starting in 1960 they were assembly line installed . If you pull the drain plug out of your tractor and it has a screen on it just like your 8N tractor it DOES NOT HAVE Balancer kit in the engine , if it has no screen on it you will be able to see the oil pump screen when you look in the hole in the oil pan and you will not be able to see anything else , the screen completely covers the opening for the drain plug .

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Jchampiii

05-20-2013 12:13:32
12.2.45.18



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 Re: Ford 901 Select O Speed Mystery in reply to TONY JACOBS, 05-20-2013 11:30:20  
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Tony,

Our tractor is a 1960 model and does not have a screen on the oil plug. The oil pick up covering the opening. So we do have the balancer kit on it. We are willing to take a chance with the welding and rubber hyd hose to act as a dampener. We are going to get a back up incase it does fail. The higher compression does make sense of why there is more vibrations. I am happy to hear that our engine has the balancer on it.
The SOS has been apart before. Hints the bearing pieces and no failed bearing. Anyways I believe they rebuilt the transmission and they put it back together without o-rings on the tube and then it failed shortly after and they gave up. There is not much wear on the tractor since the SOS was rebuilt. The only thing that looked bad was the input shaft. It was more than half way worn away. The rest of the tansmission, gear sets, bands and other componets virtually look either replaced or new.
Thank you for your help.

-JamesIII

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John Smith8N

05-20-2013 12:00:56
99.74.20.15



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 Re: Ford 901 Select O Speed Mystery in reply to TONY JACOBS, 05-20-2013 11:30:20  

I avoid diesels, so I know nothing about them. No doubt the vibration is hard on those pressure tubes and other components. But just to note, it's not limited to diesels only. I've been into several gas tractors with broken pressure tubes in the SOS and have sold used tubes to several people who have found broken ones in gas tractors. Might be a lot more common in diesels, but a gas engine isn't a guarantee of a good tube. Just sayin'.

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TONY JACOBS

05-21-2013 18:56:06
172.129.80.42



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 Re: Ford 901 Select O Speed Mystery in reply to John Smith8N, 05-20-2013 12:00:56  
Hello John , Yes you are absolutely correct also , because many of these tractors could have been originally diesels then converted to gas or just changed transmissions over the years or just possible a gas one did break the tube too , most guys would not know what they were originally or even care what they were or even bother to look they would have just wanted them fixed so they could get back to work . Thanks Tony

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Sean in PA

05-19-2013 11:28:18
71.224.102.32



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 Re: Ford 901 Select O Speed Mystery in reply to JChamp, 05-19-2013 07:30:30  

JChamp said: (quoted from post at 10:30:30 05/19/13) Fair enough but that still begs questions...


TONY JACOBS said: If you replace with a used one from a Gas engine trans. the problem is solved as I said in my first post


How exactly would that help? Would it not be subject to the same vibration damage as the diesel version, or was it made from different material? Or, would it too be considered a 'temporary' fix? (sans 'balancer')



The original tube in your tractor lasted 50 years while being subjected to the vibrations from the diesel engine. The tube from a gasoline engine tractor would not have been subjected to 50 years of diesel vibrations, and so would probably last you 50 years before it wore out from being vibrated by your diesel engine. So yeah, it would only be a temporary fix.
This post was edited by Sean in PA at 11:35:12 05/19/13.

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JChamp

05-20-2013 07:59:33
206.246.141.100



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 Re: Ford 901 Select O Speed Mystery in reply to Sean in PA, 05-19-2013 11:28:18  
I doubt that it lasted 50 years in our particular tractor. It looks as though this one has been re-built at least once. Too many pieces floating around with no damage other than the broken tube.

Given that and the failure rate on these tube, I wouldn't be surprised if they replaced that too at the time.

A position strengthened by the fact that there were no O-rings on either end of the tube as indicated in the manual. The other tubes have them.

We have a line on a gas tube, but until that becomes a reality, I'm still going with a weld+hyd hose sheath.

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TONY JACOBS

05-20-2013 11:39:39
172.129.37.138



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 Re: Ford 901 Select O Speed Mystery in reply to JChamp, 05-20-2013 07:59:33  
I am sure your trans. has been apart before , and I would bet the tube has never been replaced they generally start breaking at about 4000 hours give or take a few hours it does take a while for the metal fatigue to happen , and since there was no o-rings on your tube the previous owner or someone he hired and why it was not fixed then is any ones guess had it apart sometime after it failed because it will not hold pressure without them .

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