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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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Re: Perplexing alternator problem

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soundguy

05-08-2013 12:06:05
184.240.207.219



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#1 thru diode to switched side of key.

maybee your ammeter is bad.

have you checked with a volt meter?


got battery installed negative ground?




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Greg1959

05-08-2013 12:45:17
69.176.13.178



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to soundguy, 05-08-2013 12:06:05  
#1 thru diode to switched side of key.- yes

maybee your ammeter is bad.- I figured if it could show a discharge the it should be able to read when charging

have you checked with a volt meter? -Alternator, yes output at 1300rpm is 0.90 volts


got battery installed negative ground? -yes



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JSTPA

05-08-2013 13:00:09
24.131.202.230



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to Greg1959, 05-08-2013 12:45:17  
If your voltmeter is only reading .90 volts at the back of the alternator then your battery connection to the alternator has been lost. If its reading .90 higher than battery voltage with it running then I miss understood. jstpa



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Greg1959

05-08-2013 13:11:32
69.176.13.178



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to JSTPA, 05-08-2013 13:00:09  
I disconnected the battery line to see if alternator would produce charge. Sorry I did not clarify that.



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soundguy

05-09-2013 05:55:53
184.240.71.189



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to Greg1959, 05-08-2013 13:11:32  
that is probably what killed the alt.

when i saw .9v onthe alt output I knew you had puleld bat connection off.


why people think it's OK to unload a device like that is beyond me.

the old pull a bat cable to see if it stays running it like beating a crying child till it is no longer able to cry.

it MAY work.. and is a HORRIBLE way to go about things.. :(



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JMOR

05-08-2013 13:16:52
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to Greg1959, 05-08-2013 13:11:32  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see......which may have killed it, if it was previously good alt. These alts can produce over a hundred volts when receiving full field and no or even moderate loads. Should never be run with battery disconnected.



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Greg1959

05-08-2013 13:31:36
69.176.13.178



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to JMOR, 05-08-2013 13:16:52  
What is a 'safe' way of checking one? If I need to do so in the future. BTW, I had called NAPA when this all started and asked if they had a way to test the alternator. Their response was "No, that machine has been broken for years."



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old

05-08-2013 15:11:10
209.86.226.40



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to Greg1959, 05-08-2013 13:31:36  
Pulling a battery cable off to check for an alternator charging is a way if you mess up to get your self very DEAD. Only safe way to check an alternator is this.
#1 check battery voltage with it not running you should read 12.4 volts give or take a tad bit with a volt meter.
#2 start it up and run it say 1500 RPM and check voltage again. You should if it is working read around 13-14 volts. When you unhook the battery with the engine running if the alternator is working it will see a dead battery and try to put out max volts which in turn will fry the VR so it will put out 90 plus volts at 35 plus amps and it takes on millionth of an amp to kill a man for that is like more then 35 million times more then it takes to kill you. That by the way is what the Navy E.T. schools teach

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Sean in PA

05-09-2013 06:21:01
71.224.102.32



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to old, 05-08-2013 15:11:10  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I agree with you that an unloaded alternator can create very dangerous currents, but a millionth of an amp will not kill a person. You have more than a millionth of an amp coursing through your body constantly, generated by your own nervous system. You only begin to feel anything in the way of a mild tingling at abut a thousandth of an amp.

Deadly current starts at about 1/10th of an amp minimum, and can be higher depending on which part of your body it is flowing through. 1/10th of an amp or higher directly across the heart is usually fatal. But while a full amp across your hand from one finger to another hurts like the dickens, and if it goes for long enough can cause burns, it will not kill you. Some folks have survived lightning strikes where thousands of amps have gone through parts of their bodies for a split second but they survived.

I am not saying to not be careful, just saying that a millionth of an amp is not what you should be worrying about.

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old

05-09-2013 08:12:38
209.86.226.11



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to Sean in PA, 05-09-2013 06:21:01  
Hey this is as per the U.S. Navy E.T. school in Damneck VA and they teach that 1 millionth of an amp can and will kill a person and I could see how if you have it hit you just right but either way I am just posting what the Navy teaches if not right take it up with the U.S.Navy and tell them they are not teaching things correctly



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JMOR

05-08-2013 15:18:53
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to old, 05-08-2013 15:11:10  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Old, "When you unhook the battery with the engine running if the alternator is working it will see a dead battery and try to put out max volts ..."------max OR nothing, as I already told Greg. Depends on the specific VR installed! I have some of each & if you ever saw the circuitry it is very clear as to the differences & how each behaves. Also easy to demonstrate.

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old

05-08-2013 15:32:38
209.86.226.40



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to JMOR, 05-08-2013 15:18:53  
Yes one smoke test one way and some another way either way is not a safe or good idea to try for more then one reason the $$ it may cost you or your life



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JMOR

05-08-2013 14:06:28
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to Greg1959, 05-08-2013 13:31:36  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeFind another parts supplier. You can connect a voltmeter directly across the battery. If vehicle hasn't been run recently, the voltage will be approximately 12.3 volts. Then you start it, run at speed for a few minutes as you watch the voltage on your voltmeter climb a volt or more. No climb = no alternator output.



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Greg1959

05-08-2013 14:13:48
69.176.13.178



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to JMOR, 05-08-2013 14:06:28  
I did that at the onset of problem. Voltage read 12.38 from battery without tractor running. After starting, checked voltage at battery post on alternator. Still read 12.38 volts.



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JMOR

05-08-2013 14:23:01
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to Greg1959, 05-08-2013 14:13:48  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see No climb = no alternator output. Alt not working.

You can do another test, but unless you are just curious or want to dig into the alt internals, it isn't worth much. It tells you whether the problem is the VR or some other area of the alternator. On the back side of alt is a "D" shaped hole. Inside that hole is a small metal tab. When a screwdriver is inserted & touches tab, it shorts that tab to the side of the "D" hole and this will provide full field current and if all else is well the alternator will output its maximum.

[URL=http://s192.photobucket.com/user/JMOR_photo/media/Charging/10SI_rear_labeled-1.jpg.html][/URL]

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Greg1959

05-08-2013 14:42:43
69.176.13.178



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to JMOR, 05-08-2013 14:23:01  
JMOR

That's interesting information.

Thanks



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JMOR

05-08-2013 13:03:54
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Perplexing alternator problem in reply to JSTPA, 05-08-2013 13:00:09  
....and further more, since those 10SI units used so many different regulator designs from different suppliers & over the many years, you never know what the output will do with battery disconnected. Some will run wide open, while others will yield no output.



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